December 2009 \ Tech Tips \ Tech Tales \ Chasing Down Noise Problems

Chasing Down Noise Problems

Chad Weaver

Chad's at his wit's end with a noise issue, when the teeny-tiny solution presents itself.


Premier Guitar December 2009

In a perfect world, running all of your gear off of a unit that's supplying good, clean, consistent power and having everything on a common ground would eliminate noise issues. Unfortunately, from venue to venue and room to room there will still be a time you'll have grief from something not being 'properly earthed.' I'm thankful that for the last couple of years, my main use for those little gray ground lift adaptors has been to make up for the lack of rubber feet under one of my amps. Although, on things like TV appearances where I typically just have a few stompboxes instead of my rack, I still may have to lift an amp or two so that they'll play well with others—no big deal.

As I mentioned last column, we most recently had Brad’s rack rebuilt by David Friedman of Racksystems. Now for quite a while after having the rack rebuilt, we were noise free. Even when we quite a bit of gain dialed in on the amps, they wouldn't be any noisier than if they were sitting idle with no input.

Then one day, out of nowhere, the noise came. There seemed to be no getting rid of it no matter what I tried. The cleaner sounds had ground buzzes, and the distortion patches were all but unusable. Even the wah pedal would vary from not very good to terrible. As I'm sure you all have experienced, ground problems are some of the worst to track down. They seem to come from anywhere, and it feels like the slightest little thing will cause them. I'm not the type of person who just accepts things and moves along—I have to fix it. I just about drove myself crazy looking for an answer to why my brand new rig was noisier than the old one. I was searching at every show from the time my gear was set up until soundcheck with no luck. Nothing worked, nothing helped and I successfully shocked myself three times.

There had been no change in the rack whatsoever, so I could rule that out. I tried ground lifting each amp and the rack one at a time with no luck. To make sure I wasn't overlooking something, I talked through every step of my entire routine with our monitor engineer Mark Gould. I remember telling him that I had even tried lifting the wireless and it either made no difference at all or it was worse. I had just about settled into the idea that there was a cable going bad, and to make it all the worse, that it was somewhere inside of the rack.

Now that I’ve brought up the wireless, I have to address two things. First, the Shure UR4D wireless has a ground lift for each channel on the backside of the receiver—and flipping this switch didn't help either. Second, I have another UR4D receiver for my acoustic guitars mounted in my workbox. Both electric and acoustic wirelesses share a pair of paddle antennas by way of Shure's antenna combiner. This was the only connection that these two wirelesses have, and even breaking that caused no improvement.

By a sheer stroke of genius, Mark took the two acoustic wireless output cables and disconnected them from the sub snake. Just like that, my rig was dead quiet! Two cables that have absolutely no direct contact with my guitar rig had caused me more grief than I've ever endured in my ten years of touring.

Now this is where it gets interesting. There was nothing wrong with these mic cables at all. The problem was elsewhere. Have you ever, in an effort to keep noise levels down, grounded your fourth pin on an XLR connector? You jump your ground wire over to the fourth lug, which is generally left open and sometimes it can quiet down a noisy mic line. These had been wired this way from the factory, I'm certain for the same reason, but none of us had ever dreamed two centimeters of wire would cause such a massive ground loop through my amps. Just like a vasectomy, one quick snip made all the difference in the world. Thank you again Mark for all your help!

So remember, next time you have some noise issues and you've exhausted every avenue you can think of... it may not be your rig.

     

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Comments

(12 comments) display by
UsernameComment
Gary D.
on 12/06/2009
Hi Shawn
It seems you have a ground loop that needs breaking. You can try commercially available isolating rackmount hardware made of plastic. Or if that fails, purchase an Ebtech (or other brand) isolating box. This has 2 transformers (if stereo or 2 channels are needed)that break the loop. This is a very handy tool to keep handy and doesnt adversely effect your sound at line level. Or, if you are electrically handy, make up a line cable with the shield opened on the "far" side (away from the amp). This last is least likely to work well.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.

Gary
Shawn Kemp
on 12/04/2009
Have a huge noise issue right now, NEED HELP! I have a relatively small rig, A Nady RW-1 wireless directly into a Behringer rack tuner, to a Rocktron talkbox to a weeping demon wah then to a Peavey 6505+ halfstack with a BBE Maxcom unit via fx loop. Heres the issue, I can plug the head and wireless into my powerstrip( Or Furman) with just the cable (ProCo 12 guage) between the wireless and head input and be noise free. Now, if I simply plug the tuner OR BBE unit in to the electrical (no cables hooked up) POW major noise. OK, now if I don't use the wireless I can go from guitar to tuner to amp head and hook up the BBE in the fx loop and no noise??? i have tried another wireless a Nady 210VHF I have and same trouble. So heres another gremlin to figure out, If I remove either wireless unit from the rack and set it off to the side(no metal contact) I can hook up everything with no extra noise. As soon as I touch either wireless chassis to the rack case mount BZZZZZZZZZZZZ! I have tried everything I can think of. i had some isolation between the wireless chassis and rack mounts but it vibrated until it made contact. Also tried a different Head and same issues. Thanks for any Help! ibanez_rg@mchsi.com
Gary D.
on 12/01/2009
Harry-
Great reminder: simplify, then expand outward.
Thanks!

Gary
Tobias
on 12/01/2009
Similar story: I had a 1/4" connector between the Musicom Lab EFX switcher and Lexicon rack gear. This cable had a slightly smaller diameter barrel - not in spec with the rest of my lava connectors. When that cable was touched by accident, the hum gets louder. So I've said good riddance to all my out-of-spec 1/4" plug cables.
Harry
on 11/30/2009
Troubleshooting 101 would be.. plug directly into your amp to see if you have a problem..#2 go through your rack and amp to see if there's a problem..Done in less than a minute and you know it's not your rig.
Start at the core and expand out until you hit the problem.
Gary D.
on 11/28/2009
Yeah, I could see how tying the barrels of the connectors to two different chassis could cause a nasty ground loop.

I looked at a couple of xlr males I had handy, one Panoma the other a Neutrik. Thankfully neither had a lug available to solder to the connector shell. I seem to remember Cannon or maybe Swithcraft had such a lug.

I'll def. watch out for this in the future NTIK.

Gary
Mitch
on 11/28/2009
Gary- Essentially the 'forth' lug grounds the chassis of the XLR plug- making the ground lift switch on any equipment 'bypassed' so you can't lift the earth... that's how the problem happened I see it...
Dave D.
on 11/27/2009
Are you talking about the lug directly opposite pin #3 that does'nt have the 'miserable-to-solder' little scooped out thingy? I have seen these connected to pin #1 (I think) on some cables and always wondered if it was necessary.
Gary Delucchi
on 11/27/2009
Nice that it worked out for you. I have never encountered a fourth pin on an XLR plug, jack or cable. Three, yes. Am I missing something here? Please advise.
Thanks!
Gary
TelePickinMa n
on 11/27/2009
Great stuff, Chad.



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