Weāve got tracks by heavyweights like former Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave guitarist Tom Morello, garage-rock icons Mark Arm and Steve Turner from Mudhoney, and Sleep and High on Fire frontman Matt Pike.
A chilled-out look at the road rigs of guitarists Jimmy Herring and John āJBā Bell, and bassist Dave Schoolsā32 years after the legendary jam bandās first gig in Athens, Georgia.
Premier Guitarās Ted Drozdowski met with virtuoso Jimmy Herring, frontman John āJBā Bell, and techs Joel Byron and Paul Agostino before the second of three dates at Nashvilleās Ascend Amphitheater to get the scoop on how Widespread Panicās string-stretchers get their sounds.
Jimmy Herringās main guitar with Widespread Panic is a custom-built Paul Reed Smith with Lollar Imperial pickups, two volume controls and a single tone control. He favors jumbo frets with medium action for more clarity and definition, and strings them up with DāAddario .010 sets. The back of its headstock bears the legend āCustom built for Jimmy Herring,ā and is signed by Smith. His backup axe, which also has Lollar Imperials, is a David Grissom signature PRS that he mostly pays in drop D.
Besides his PRS guitars, Herring brought this parts S-style guitar built by guitar tech Joel Byron on Widespreadās sojurn to Nashville. Itās āsort of a ā50s style,ā says Herring. The guitarās got a light ash body (from MJT), which he says tends to resonate better, a USA Custom Guitars neck, Don Mare pickups, and a Callaham bridge chosen to give the strings a more modern spacing. As with all his guitars with whammy bars, he uses four springs under the bridge. The axeās middle setting activates the neck and middle pickup.
Herringās dry tone comes from a 100-watt Homestead head handbuilt by Peter McMahon, outfitted with 6550 tubes. After a volume pedal and tuner, itās what Herringās signal hits first, and then a line out goes to a second volume pedal that leads to his wet amp rig.
The cab for Herringās dry signal is this old 4x12 Sound City with 40/40 Tone Tubby ceramic magnet speakers. Perched atop the cabinet is a Brown Box input voltage attenuator with a sticker of his late mentor Col. Bruce Hamptonās face on it.
Herringās Crown power amp pushes sound through an Orange 4x12 run in stereo, with four Electro-Voice Force monitor speakers, for big, clean tones. The reverb comes courtesy of an Eventide Space, and when things need to get dirty, thereās a Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor also atop the power amps.
Hereās the Ampeg BA210SP that Herring uses as a monitor for Dave Schoolsā sound. Typically, he leaves the controls where Joel Byron sets āem.
Herring might use this Germino Classic 45 to play smaller venues than an outdoor arena like the Ascend. Itās essentially an update on the Marshall JTM45, with Drake power and output transformers, and TAD KT-66 and Mullard reissue 12AX7 tubes.
Jimmy Herringās versatile palette of tones with Widespread Panic mostly comes from his deft control of volume, but a few boxes are also along for the ride. The most important is his Eventide Space, which provides the reverb for the tone that emerges from his stereo Orange cab. Thatās buoyed by a Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor, for overdrive, but he plugs straight into an Ernie Ball volume pedal and a battered Boss TU-2 tuner.
This array of volume pedals at the front of Herringās stage carpet allows him to control what heās hearing in his monitors without using his hands. He got the system while touring with the Dead in 2000. āI was finding myself for the first time on really big stages, and asked their soundman, Dennis Leonard, who they call āWiz,ā if he could build something better for me than one of those monitors you have to control by hand. This keeps me from having to think about anything while I play.ā
John āJBā Bellās main guitar is the latest in a line of Washburn HB35 semi-hollowbody models heās been playing since 1990, with a distinctive custom red finish and white binding. Itās got Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates humbuckers and is strung with .012 sets with a wound G. His backup is an all-black HB35 he uses for slideāmostly in open G, open D, or drop D. His slides are brass, and he also tunes the guitar down a whole step to play some Vic Chesnutt songs. The pickups are a Duncan Alnico II Pro in the neck and a Custom in the bridge. He tends to use both pickups at all times, for both guitars.
Depending on the tunes in the set, JB might play a National Tricone resonator, a banjo, or this Washburn M3SW F-style mandolin. The mando was the acoustic instrument he brought for these Nashville shows.
JB runs both his amps throughout the bandās two-set marathons. Heās had a Roland JC-120 since Widespread began and typically has the chorus engaged. But things get a little āwonky,ā he says, when he steps on his Vox wah, so Joel Byron modded the wah with a switch that deactivates the ampās chorus when it gets stomped on.
JBās other amp, a 100-watt Fuchs Overdrive Supreme, has a radically different tone than the Roland. Thereās a Radial Tonebone switcher on top, connecting both amps. Weāre not sure what effect the crystal has on his tone, but itās cool!
The cab beneath the Fuchs is a stock Mesa/Boogie 4x12 with a closed back.
JBās Horizon Selectaline switcher routes his guitar signal into his JC-120 and Fuchs amps, and dates back to a time when one of his guitars was a Gibson Chet Atkins model.
JBās essential tone-shaping pedal is this Ibanez Tube Screamer, which he leaves on all the time. Itās joined on the floor by a Peterson Strobo Stomp 2 tuner, a Fulltone OCD overdrive for solos, an Ernie Ball volume pedal, his modded Vox wah, and a Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 2. He also uses a passive Radial DI when he decides to play National Tricone resonator, banjo, or his Washburn M3SW F-style mandolin.
Dave Schoolsā No. 1 is a custom 6-string Modulus Graphite bass he calls āMerle.ā It has Bartolini pickups, an active preamp, and active EQ controls. There are two stickers laminated onto the back, for inspiration. One is Grateful Dead-themed. The other is derived from Indian classical painting.
His other 6-string bass is a gorgeous Alembic Custom Series II in a dark mahogany with a cocobolo top and a walnut, ebony, purpleheart, and maple neck. Itās a Bird of Prey body shape, with Alembicās proprietary pickups and an active preamp and EQ. Both of his basses sport multi-pin connector ins, but those go unused.
Clean power is the aim of Schoolsā current system, which is driven by a d&b power amp. Agostino explains that the bass rig mirrors the bandās overall PA system, and that Schools was inspired to put it together by Phil Leshās rig. Itās bi-amped, with the highs running through two d&b Y10 speakers and two of the companyās 1x15 cabs for low end. Those rest atop a pair of 18s, controlled by the monitor engineer, who feeds them some kick drum, too, letting them double as monitor and bass output. A currently unused Line 6 Relay wireless receiver rests below the d&b amp.
Schoolsā core tone shaping is done by an Avalon Design Vacuum Tube VT 737sp preamp, which rests in his rack alongside a Live Wire power conditioner and a Korg ToneWorks tuner.
According to bass tech Paul Agostino, Dave Schools changes his buffet of effects on a nightly basis, but his two constants are this MXR Bass Octave Deluxe, for subtones, and the new Waza Craft version of the classic Boss DM-2 Delay.
The rest of Schoolās pedal feast at Nashvilleās Ascend: a Catlinbread SFT Ampeg-voiced overdrive, a Walrus Audio Luminary Quad Octave Generator, EarthQuaker Devicesā The Depths optical vibe, a Catlinbread Echorec, a Caroline Guitar Company Kilobyte Lo-Fi Delay, and, on the floor, a Carl Martin Octa-Switch. Heās also fond of envelope filters, but not for this gig. And Schools uses an Ernie Ball volume pedal to mute before tuning, and a Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 2 to run his rotating roster of stomps.
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The king of jam band 6 string goes deepāin a conversation with Testamentās leaderāon the ā90s jam renaissance, Jeff Buckley, Dixie Dregs, and cutting tracks for Widespread Panic's latest album, Street Dogs.
Hereās a question that comes up every once in a while during an interview: āAre there any guitarists you count as influences who might not be as familiar to our readers (or listeners) as more household names such as Van Halen, Hendrix, or Metheny?ā My first answer, for quite some time now, has been the same: Jimmy Herring.
Although he isnāt the first to bridge the gap between high-energy rock soloing and jazz-inspired improvisation (the ā70s recordings of Jeff Beck as well as those of drummer Billy Cobham, featuring the late guitarist Tommy Bolin, come to mind), no one to my knowledge has taken it to the level that Jimmy has. If youāre someone who enjoys the āscreamingā of rock and blues solos, but has grown tired of hearing predictable pentatonic patterns, or if youāve ever been intrigued by modern improvisationāchromatic lines, extended triads, outside phrasesābut have had to adjust your tastes to accommodate the mellifluousness of traditional jazz guitar tone, then Jimmy Herring might be, depending on your theological juxtaposition:
A. The answer to your prayers.
B. An evolutionary milestone.
C. The embodiment of the term ābest of both worlds.ā
I first became aware of Jimmy, who was born in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in the early ā90s after an encounter with the great keyboardist T Lavitz (who sadly passed away in 2010). T was best known for his work with the pioneering Southern fusion band, Dixie Dregs, with whom heād played alongside the virtuoso guitarist Steve Morse (currently of Deep Purple). T had mentioned this fantastic new guitarist I must check out from an Atlanta-based band with a strange name: The Aquarium Rescue Unit. āAquarium what?ā Iād replied, writing it down. (Note: when Steve Morseās bandmate recommends a guitarist, you listen.)
a Les Paul."
With help from the friendly owner of a newly opened record store in Berkeley called Amoeba (their flagship store, before the now famous San Francisco and Hollywood locations), I managed to track down used copies of the bandās two hard-to-find albums: the eponymous live debut, Col. Bruce Hampton & The Aquarium Rescue Unit, and their studio follow up, Mirrors of Embarrassment.
These purchases would be invaluable. Iād never heard guitar solos developed like this before, played to music that was highly sophisticated yet fun and groovingānot just for fans of technical proficiency. In addition to Jimmy, there was Oteil Burbridge, who blended the bass skills of Jaco Pastorius with George Benson-like vocal scatting, and Matt Mundy, whose mandolin sounded as though he was channeling the harmonic density of saxophonist Michael Brecker. No territory was off limits. Rock, funk, gospel, bluegrass, country, and more were handled with flawless ability and reverence for each genre, all fronted by a slightly elder statesman from the Woodstock generation. Col. Bruce was no virtuoso, but his highly creative wordplay and quirkiness formed the perfect countercultural counterpart to the young wizards. Live, they were mind-alteringāan experience matched only by walking in during a sound check in San Francisco and having Jimmy jump down from the stage with a hand extended, a genuine smile, and a āNice to meet you!ā To this day, he holds my title of āNicest Guy in the Guitar Community.ā
Discovering Jimmy and ARU, while musically intoxicating, was also sobering. It shed light on a difficult truth of the business of music and the arts in general: talent is no guarantee of success. It was hard to witness a band so undeniably good (and such nice folks, to boot) be subject to poor distribution, years of endless van touring, and virtually no luck breaking into higher levels of the music industry. Big names of the jam world, including Phish, Dave Mathews, Bruce Hornsby, and Blues Traveler, did what they could do. They took ARU on tour and nudged their respective record labels, to no avail. Meanwhile, one of ARUās tunes, āNo Egos Underwater,ā was picked by bandleader Branford Marsalis for the repertoire of NBCās The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, while another ARU fan, actor and director Billy Bob Thornton, cast Col. Bruce in his Academy Award winning breakthrough film, Sling Blade.
For the majority of Street Dogs, Herring simply relied on a Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor, an Eventide Space, andāfor one songāa Vox wah. Photo by Andy Tennille
The good news is that Jimmy would find some fabulous outlets for putting his skills to use, including a tour with the Allman Brothers (which then had Oteil as their permanent bassist), Billy Cobham and T Lavitzās Jazz is Dead, the Grateful Deadās Phil Lesh, and, since 2006, one of jamās biggest groups, Widespread Panic. Their latest album, Street Dogs, features terrific songs and live jams, with Jimmy boldly venturing into some new territory.
Meanwhile, ARU recently embarked on their first extensive reunion tour in honor ofāoddly enoughātheir 26th anniversary (Col. Bruceās idea). The tour wrapped up at the Brooklyn Bowl, close to my home, and I was grateful it fell on a rare day I was off tour. Jimmy and the guys sounded as good as ever, and afterwards he and I had a great hang. A few days before, weād been able to reconnect and discuss all of the above and much, much more.
Jimmy Herringās story is an amazing one, with tales of guitar artistry, adventure, inspiration, and many memorable characters encountered along the way. Iām grateful for the opportunity to share this in-depth conversation with my friend Jimmy, one of the nicest guys I knowāwho just happens to be one of our true treasures of modern guitar playing.
āMusic school is not real big on Bruceās list of good things. He felt like it was necessary to wipe away all traces of music school, because he felt like āmusic schoolā was an oxymoron,ā says Herring about his ARU bandmate, Col. Bruce Hampton. Photo by Vikas Nambiar
You were one of the first guys I heard that had a rock tone combined with an expansive harmonic sensibility.
When I went to GIT [Los Angelesā Guitar Institute of Technology] in ā84, I heard Scott Henderson on the first day. It was like [saxophonist] Michael Brecker meets Jeff Beck. I was like, āWhat the hell is this?ā It was the delivery of a rock player but harmonically deep with all these incredible lines. It was an eye-opening experience and really messed me up. It changed my whole way of thinking.
What Brecker albums did you get into?
Heavy Metal Bebop was the first. I had a friend who played me that even before I left for California in ā84. It must have been about ā80 or ā81 when I first heard him, and he had that envelope filter on his sax and was playing these insane lines. That definitely was an influence already without lifting any lines, just by listening to it. When I first started playing with Bruce [Hampton] we were listening to a lot of Coltrane and his stuff where he stretched out and just played on vamps. All that stuff started to come together during that time. You came out to a show around then, right?
Yeah, it was at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. I think Bruce couldnāt make it so you did an instrumental show with Oteil picking up some vocals. My friends and I still thought it was one of the best shows weād ever seen.
Oh man, thanks. During that era we were touring a lot and Bruce was getting real tired of touring. Honestly, there were some other things he was tired of, too, like the management we had at the time. It was starting to get bigger than he wanted it to be. I remember you said in print one time, āWell, thereās all these jam bands, but thereās this one that seems different from the rest of them.ā It cracked me up, because when we started playing our band was really just an experimental thing that happened in Atlanta one night a week.Then one night these cats walked in and heard us and invited us to open for them. It was Widespread Panic. We didnāt even know who they were. We became friends with them and opened a couple of shows. They were just the nicest cats ever.
How much of a local or regional following did they have back then?
They had this subculture thing going, and even in 1989 they could sell out three nights at Center Stage in Atlanta, which was about a thousand seats. We thought, āHoly crap! These guys are rock stars.ā Finally, Bruce would let us tour. He was like, āYou canāt handle touring [laughs]. Youād be crying for your mommy in the first week.ā We all got a great laugh out of that one. Heās just an incredible cat to learn from. In our process of touring with Widespread, we met Dave Matthews, Phish, and Blues Traveler. Then, for lack of a better term, this jam-band renaissance of sorts was starting to form and they put the H.O.R.D.E tour together, but the powers that be did not want us to be a part of it.
Why do think that was? Because you were too musical?
Thatās funny [laughing]. I would put it more like we didnāt have any drawing power. And we arenāt really made for playing outside in the afternoon. Weāre a club band that goes on at midnight. The other bands went to the management of the festival and went, āTheyāre going to be here. And if you donāt like it, we arenāt going to be here.ā
I remember calling you one time because we had gotten to know each other a little bit and I was in a real tough spot. Bruce quit the band and it was falling apart, so I was looking for guitar tech jobs. I needed a job to feed my family and I remember calling you for a tech job. Do you remember that?
Wow. I know we had crossed paths, or just missed each other at one point. I donāt remember that being what it was about. Thatās astounding. There are stories about jazz piano legend McCoy Tyner getting a gig as a cab driver in the ā70s. Which is insane.
Aw man. Thatās just ā¦ I canāt believe that.
Jimmy Herringās Gear
GuitarsCustom PRS w/Lollar Imperial pickups (circa 2000)
American Deluxe FenderĀ Stratocaster (circa 2008)
1969 Fender Stratocaster
Baxendale steel-string acoustic
Amps
1964 Fender Super Reverb rehoused in a Mojotone head
Mojotone 4x10 cab with Tone Tubby Alnico speakers
1964 Fender āTuxedoā Bassman
Germino Lead 55
Early ā70s Ampeg B4
Open-back Tone Tubby 4x12 cab
Effects
Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor
Eventide Space Reverb
Ernie Ball Volume Pedal
Vox V847 Wah
Strings and Picks
DāAddario (.010ā.046)
V Picks Large Pointed Lites
Stories like that were big lessons for me, in a wayāthat talent matters, but it doesnāt matter. Itās the most important thing, and itās not the most important thing. It has so much to do with circumstance, popular trends, and business. Luckily, you didnāt have to tech and you found a good gig, right?
My next gig after that was Jazz Is Dead. We also did this little side project with Butch Trucks from the Allman Brothers called Frogwings. I remember Butch asking me if I knew any bass players [laughs]. āYeah, I know a really, really great bass player.ā Iād sat in with Derek Trucks on a tour and Butch came to a show and said, āI like the way you two guys play together. I want to put a band together.ā Oteil and I went down to rehearse with Butchās new band, which was going to have Derek in it. We had fun with that and did a little two-week tour, and they recorded it to put a low-budget record out.
It was so hard to get that first ARU album. Thatās an unfortunate thing, but itās been very influential. ARU is now doing a reunion tour. What took so long?
Itās mostly scheduling, as you can imagine, with everyone doing different things and being in bands that tour a lot, it was hard to get it together. But Bruce would call sometimes and go, āWhat are you doing this week? Youāre home! I know youāre home!ā He knows what our schedules are. He knows everything.
I saw his āoutstructionalā guitar video. [EditorāA bizarre film called Outside Out, directed by Phishās Mike Gordon.] He knows what youāre thinking [laughs].
Heās so crazy. Last year we were going to try and do it because it was the 25th anniversary, but scheduling made it impossible. So I said, āLetās try and do the 26th year.ā Because if you know Bruce, he never says, āMeet me at noon.ā Itās always, āMeet me at 11:52.ā So we all kinda laughed and thought a 26th anniversary tour made sense. Itās been tough because I just had a five- or six-week tour with Panic and then four days home before this run took off. But, man, Iād do anything to get back and play with these guys again, because itās such a special thing.
I think it brings out a different side of you as well.
Oh, it does. Really, strangely, I got out of school in ā85 and I had never been in a true touring band. I moved to Atlanta in ā86 and by ā89 I was still in Atlanta and just got into Bruceās band. I didnāt even know how to play normal music, really. I mean, I did, but I didnāt have any touring experience to speak of. Music school is not real big on Bruceās list of good things. He felt like it was necessary to wipe away all traces of music school because he felt like āmusic schoolā was an oxymoron [laughs]. I mean, heās really just kidding. A lot of itās in jest, but he understood our minds.
Iām sure thereās a lot to be learned from that, because some things do need to be unlearned. Of course, there are exceptions. Some guys come out of music school on their way to becoming fully developed artists, but there are a disproportionate amount of ācookie cutterā players. It seems like when you went to the Musicians Institute it was a great time to go there. Dude. It was right on the cusp. I was lucky.
Herringās main gig is lead guitarist in the seminal Southern-rock jam band, Widespread Panic, where he splits guitar duties with founder and frontman John āJBā Bell. Photo by Andy Tennille
Who else was there with you? Werenāt you there at the same time as Jeff Buckley?
Jeff was, like, my best friend. We were practically inseparable. Paul Gilbert was there, too. I remember seeing Paul on the first day of school. I was walking down the hall, didnāt know anybody yet, and thereās this practice room with a group of people huddled around. You canāt even see exactly whatās going on. I peeked over the top and there was Paul sitting in a chair playing. He didnāt even have his guitar plugged in and you could have heard a pin drop. He was playing all that Yngwie stuff from [Alcatrazzās] No Parole from Rock ānā Roll album note for note. Without an amp! His picking hand was like a jackhammer. He just knocked all of us right on our asses.
Buckley is an artist of such depth that many would be surprised to know that he went to Hollywoodās top guitar school, where all the shredders go.
He was only 17 and I was 22. We were in ear training class together and quickly realized that we had to get together. He would come over to my little apartment and even though he had his own place he stayed at our place more than he went home. Iāll tell you something about him: That cat had the best ear of anybody I have ever been around. This was before the days of being able to digitally slow down Coltrane solos.This cat transcribed all these Coltrane solos, all this stuff from Steve Vaiās Flex-able album, Dregs stuff, Alan Holdsworth solosāyou name it. It was inspirational. I was trying to do the same thing, but he was the first guy I met who was as into it as I wasābut he was much further along.
What was he like as a player?
He was incredible, but he was real shy. He didnāt play a lot around school, though. He had this electric Ovation guitar. One of the rare ones, I think it was called the Breadwinner. It looked like a broken egg. It wasnāt a great guitar, but it was what he had and he made it work. At graduation he put together a trio and performed a Weather Report song that didnāt even have guitar on it. That will tell you something about his abilities. He never even sang in front of me except when we would do ear training. We would start with a tone and he would sing an interval and Iād have to say what it was. Then I would sing the note he sang and then sing another interval from that note. He was just phenomenal.
I can hear Steve Morseās influence in your playing. Coincidentally, I first heard of you through T Lavitz, who played in the Dregs. When did you first hear them?
When I was a kid, the Dregs and Steve Morse were a huge, life-changing experience for me. And not just because I was young, but because I got to see them a bunch of times. They toured incessantly and seemed to be in North Carolina a lot. I bet I saw them 100 times. I was like a Deadhead that followed them around, so they joked that I was a āDreghead.ā I would drop anything I was doing if they were close by. Steve was such an amazing role model because this cat didnāt party; he had his guitar with him all the time, and was legendary for practicing for three hours after the gig. It was a tremendous impact on my young way of looking at things and I wanted to do that. So no partying after the gigsājust straight to the hotel and take my guitar into the bathroom where thereās reverb [laughs].
The first guitar clinic I ever attended was at Leoās Music in Oakland. I had only been playing a year or two and just stopped in to pick up something. Turns out it was Steve Morse. It was a great way to get introduced to him and the Dregs.
I had started to see them when I was a junior in high school. I would be at sound check just because I wanted to see this band every minute I could even if they werenāt playing. I got to be friends with the road crew and they started calling me āNorth Carolinaā because every time they played in the state I was there. I got to be friends with them enough that they would let me start to help set up the gear. T would seem really approachable. Iād go up and ask him to show me a passage in āIām Freaking Outā or āOdyssey.ā He was kinda struck that this little kid knew these songs by name. T would separate the parts and show them to me slowly.
YouTube It
The āSantana at Woodstock vibeā described by Alex Skolnick propels Widespread Panicās āCease Fire,ā played here during a March 20, 2015 show at the Fox Theater in Oakland, California. The song is a showcase for Jimmy Herringās fat, silken tone. He drops into his first solo at 2:12, glides into a second, lengthier guitar breakāwhich includes some elegant microtonal bendsāat 3:30, and rips like Carlos at 5:12.
Did you ever get to jam with them during this time?
Eventually. Some of the people at the clubs knew me and would tell the crew, āHey, that kid can play Dregs stuff,ā and I was like, āNo! Shut up, donāt tell them that!ā One night they were all having a party at my friendās house and they were playing a Dregs album. My friend was telling a crew guy, āThis dude can play that tune.ā The crew guy said, āYou canāt play that.ā And I went, āNo, youāre right. I canāt play it.ā But my friend, who knew I could, was like, āPick up that fucking guitar and play it!ā It was āPride Oā the Farmā and I had been shedding on it, and so he basically cornered me. So the record was playing and there was a little amp, and I just doinked around with the record. The guy I had given a ride to said, āNext time weāre in town, bring your guitar. You got to go play with Steve.ā Of course, I was terrified.
What happened the next time they came to town?
I had my guitar in the trunk of my car and the crew told me to go get it about a half-hour before the Dregs were going on. They instructed me to go in the dressing room where the band members were warming up and hanging out. Rod Morgenstein had a practice pad, T had a small keyboard, and Steve was warming up through a tiny practice amp. Steve unplugged his guitar and handed me the cord. I was trembling! I didnāt know what to do, so I just started playing fragments of Dregs music I had tried to learn, and asking him if I had it right. He was so genuine and kind, and told me āAlmost!ā T and Rod started playing along with me, and made me feel welcome and encouraged me, but I didnāt get to play with them that night. Years later ARU opened for the Dregs a few times and Steve sat in with us at least once. I was thrilled and, again, scared to death!
Recently, at PRS Guitarsā 30th Anniversary, fusion master John McLaughlin sat in with Herring and The Aquarium Rescue Unit for a set of inspired, spaced-out jams. Photo by Vikas Nambiar
Overall, your tone on the new Widespread record, Street Dogs, is amazing. Who produced the album and what did he do to capture your sound?
John Keane produced it. Heās done a lot of records for this band over the years. Heās just a great producer. He did my last record, too. Heās brilliant at capturing guitar sounds and usually he makes you play through amps that he prefers. On our previous album, Dirty Side Down, I used a 100-watt Fuchs Overdrive Supreme and the Fender Super Reverb. Luckily, on this record he really liked my amps. Iāve spent years tweaking these amps, but he knows where to put the mics. Iāve been into amps that only have one channel, and using just use an overdrive box and my volume knob.
Was the intention for āCease Fireā to emulate a Santana at Woodstock vibe?
Youāre not the first person to say that. That tune was lying around and Iāve had those chord changes for a long time. The group liked it and we arranged it and put vocals on it. Itās kind of classical in a way. Some of the chord changes ā¦ like when you build a diminished triad on the II chord and play it over a pedal tone of the root. Thereās that one passage [sings], and then it descends in different inversions. But itās the same two chords every time. You hear that in classical music sometimes. Itās fun to play over because itās visiting that harmonic minor or Phrygian thing. When we play it live I havenāt used a Strat on it, but I used a Strat and the Bassman in the studio when we recorded it.
What Strat did you use?
Itās an American Deluxe that they made with the neck specs that I asked forāa 12ā radius with big frets. I play it a lot. Itās got those noiseless Fender pickups in it that everyone hates [laughs]. Including me! Except when I plug this one in I canāt find anything wrong with it. I did a lot of single-coil Strat stuff on this record for some reason.
How does Widespread Panic gear up for an album cycle? What makes Street Dogs different?
Normally, we would just go in and get a good drum track, which a lot of rock ānā roll bands do. Then start building from that point. But this time we really wanted to try and capture it live. The band made a decision that we were going to do as few overdubs as possible. We had been writing some tunes and some covers were hanging around from the live shows, so we went in the studio in January 2013 to write some tunes. We played them live for a while and came back in January of ā14 to make a record. It wasnāt like we could set up like we were playing live, but they found a way to make it work. I hate headphones. I just canāt make it happen. Depending on whatās expectedā¦ but if Iām improvising solos, forget it.
Youāre such a dynamic player. It must be hard to get that sense of feedback and control without being close to your amp.
Yeah, man. I have to be standing next to my amp in order to get any kind of relationship between the pickups and the amplifier. It may be superstition talking, but I feel like your amp sounds different when youāre standing next to it. Even if youāre not holding a note and bringing feedback into the equation, I just think it sounds different.
How did you get around that in the studio?
They set the drums up like you would imagine, and then they set the percussion up next to them with a little wall for some separation. JBās amp was in an iso chamberāhe doesnāt suffer from my disease of having to be right by an amp. My amps became really interesting. A lot of the album was done on a ā64 Fender Bassman. You know those blonde Bassmans that Brian Setzer uses? Itās like that except itās a blackface model, but internally the same as what Setzer uses. Itās a transitional model, from when they were going from the blonde era to the blackface era. They call those ātuxedoā Bassmans. I love that amp and ran it through a 4x12 Tone Tubby cabinet that had four alnico speakers with an open back. My Super Reverb went through another 4x12 in stereoājust like I do live. I had an Ampeg B4 there and a Germino Lead 55.
This was the interesting part: Instead of wearing headphones, the producer brought in a small PA system. He set up the PA facing me. I was in the same room as everybody, but they put up these little isolation walls around me. He basically set that as my monitor mix so I could control the levels of everything. I was able to play just like I was playing a show. My concern was that my amps were behind me and the PA was facing me and going right towards the mics on my amplifier. I thought it would be a bleed problem, but the producer said, āYeah, youād be surprised. Itās minimal.ā There were probably one or two things on the album where I overdubbed the solo again later, but not because they wanted me to. I just begged [laughs]. They were like, āDonāt re-do that, just leave it.ā And I was like, āOK.ā As a result I havenāt really wanted to hear it, so I havenāt heard it since itās been mixed and mastered.
āJimmy Herring
The album has that single-coil twang to it.
It has taken me years to tweak these amps to make them optimum for both humbuckers and single-coils. Iāve found ways of doing things. Like the right tubes. You just got to pay for them, thatās all. Itās sad that they cost that much, but old-stock preamp tubes are just the best. You know the deal. It makes a huge difference to me. Especially if you donāt use a lot of gadgetry going into the amp. Thatās when you really hear the difference with the old-stock tubes. I fought it for years and said, āIām not paying $95 for an AX7. Thatās just stupid.ā But man, when I heard the difference I couldnāt deny it anymore.
How do you balance your rig when moving from single-coils to humbuckers?
The most important thing, mainly with blackface Fenders, is you just have to turn it up to at least 8 or itās going to sound brittleāespecially with single-coils. You canāt be afraid of the treble knob. I was always afraid of it. One time I was playing a gig with Derek Trucks. He sounds like the pearly gates open every time he plays a note.
And with no effects! I got to watch him up close at an Allman Brothers rehearsal and it was just incredible.
Yeah. Itās ridiculous. Heās been my tone muse ever since Iāve known him. We were at sound check and I got my Super Reverb set up next to his. I was like, āMan, why is your Super Reverb so much louder than mine?ā I know part of that is the fact that he plays slide with higher action. It projects better. And none of my guitars have super-low action, but Iām not a slide player, so itās not like a Dobro. Derek looks at my settings and goes, āDo this.ā He cranked the volume and treble to 10, the mid down to about 4, and the bass off. Thatās the key. Either turn the bass down or off. Now, weāre talking about Fender blackface amps; itās not going to be the same with every amp. I found out later thatās what Jeff Beck does. But it doesnāt work unless the amp is cranked.
When youāre talking about varying outputs of pickups, how do you balance that? With your hands and volume knob?
My volume knob is mostly maxed out, so I just live with a little bit less volume with single-coils. One way Iāve found around that is just use lower-output humbuckers. Lollar Imperial pickups are what I usually use for humbuckers. They have a low-wind Imperial, and I recently put those in a guitar and they are great. They have that creaminess when you crank the guitar volume, but when you back off, believe it or not, they sound like a beefed-up Tele. A good Les Paul, weāre talking about the late ā50s, sounds like a Tele on steroids. Thatās why you see those old cats playing funk on a Les Paul. A lot of those old PAFs werenāt wound very hot. Plus, it wasnāt an exact science so some of them are wound hotter than others. Jason Lollar is a scientist and I trust his opinion about these sorts of things.
The tone on āHonky Redā is a little different for you. I was saying earlier that you do so many styles. The one I havenāt heard you do much of is heavy metal, but the tone here is a little bit metal. At least on the riffāand thatās coming from an actual metal player. Also, I heard a cover Widespread Panic did recently of āAce of Spades.ā
That was hilarious. Lemmy! I love him. Heās cool. That was JBās suggestion. He just loves Motƶrhead and weāve never covered one of their songs. We all thought it was fun. āHonky Redā came from our bass player, Dave Schools. His dad actually recorded that song. Iām not sure who originally did it. I didnāt know if it was going to be on the album, but we did it live in the room and I was using a PRS with those Lollar Imperials. Iāve probably had that guitar for 17 years or so. It does that fake harmonica shit with the trem, you know. I had that and my Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor overdrive pedal.
You have a unique approach to the whammy bar. Was that something youāve been experimenting with for a while?
I didnāt grow up with it. I purposely stayed away from it because Jeff Beck is so great with it. He was my reason for not using it. I love Van Halen, but I just never tried to play in that style. As much as I loved him, it seemed like everyone was going that way.
Everybody! And you were in Hollywood at the time, when it was all over the place.
Yeah, thatās true. I doinked around with it on other peopleās guitars once or twice, and it felt unnatural to me. Whenever I would take my hand away from the strings to grab the bar, other ugly noises would ring out. When I was about 46āIām 53 nowāI was on tour with Panic and Dave came to me with this giant spindle of DVDs. Many of them were recent Jeff Beck performances. This was before the Ronnie Scotts DVD came out. I watched those and I was stunned. How did Jeff Beck get even better? How did that happen? He drops out of the public eye and heās even better. His level of expression with that bar, man: I heard him playing bagpipe shit; I heard him playing harmonica; I heard slide guitarāall with that bar. I heard him play āSomewhere Over the Rainbowā and he would hit one harmonic and it would sound like a theremin. I was so struck by it that I had to find out more about it. He was the reason why I never touched it and, in the end, he was the reason I picked it up.