Behold, the organized chaos of PAKT in the flesh. Guitarists Alex Skolnick and Tim Motzer hold down the left and right flanks, respectively, with revered bassist Percy Jones and drummer Kenny Growhowski.
PAKT manages to have broader appeal than many of their peers in the free-improv niche because its players have such diverse influences and backgrounds, and high profiles. Arguably, one’s guitar experience couldn’t be more eclectic than Skolnick’s. He found massive success in the late 1980s and early ’90s with the thrash-metal group Testament, then garnered both critical and popular acclaim as a straight-ahead jazz guitarist. Additionally, Skolnick has participated in numerous tribute concerts and recordings, honoring the likes of Allan Holdsworth, Iron Maiden, and Leslie West.
“I’m of the mind that improvisation leads to composition, and many times the improvisations are the compositions.” - Tim Motzer
While Tim Motzer’s guitar output tends to stick within the realm of free improv—as much as 75 percent, he says—it takes on a variety of forms: dance accompaniment; duos, trios, and larger groups; and film and television scores, including for True Blood and Adam Sandler’s Hustle. “I’m of the mind that improvisation leads to composition, and many times the improvisations are the compositions. They’re just realized spontaneously,” says Motzer, echoing the Shorter principle.
Alex Skolnick's Gear
Alex Skolnick onstage with Testament, which he joined in 1983. After initially departing in 1992, he rejoined in 2005 and has stayed in the fold since.
Photo by Tim Bugbee/Tinnitus Photography
Guitars
- ESP Alex Skolnick FR with Seymour Duncan Alex Skolnick Signature pickups
- Allparts ’62/’63 Relic Stratocaster
Amps
- VHT D-50H
- VHT 1x12 speaker cabinet
Strings
- D’Addario XS or NYXL (.011-.049) for ESP Alex Skolnick
- D’Addario XS (.010-.046) for AllParts Strat
Picks
- Jim Dunlop Ultex 1.5mm
Effects
- TC Electronic Polytune
- JAM Pedals Wahcko
- JAM Pedals TubeDreamer 88
- J. Rockett Audio Designs Blue Note Overdrive
- Moollon Signal Boost
- Electro-Harmonix Micro Synth
- MXR Phase 95
- JAM Pedals WaterFall
- Crazy Tubes Circuits Splash
- TC Electronic Flashback
- Seymour Duncan Andromeda
- Electro-Harmonix POG2
- JAM Pedals Delay Llama (Custom Painted, Va
Gough “Starry Night”) + Expression Pedal - Earthquaker Devices Pitch Bay
- IK Multimedia AmpliTube X-Space Digital Reverb
- Line 6 DL4 MkII
- Boomerang III Phrase Sampler
- Dunlop DVP4 Volume (X)
Along with Jones and Grohowski, who have played with Brand X and other forward-thinking artists, Skolnick and Motzer have documented PAKT’s latest musical quests on the new, two-disc No Steps Left toTrace. Including their eight live albums, this is the group’s 10th release, featuring studio recordings and live performances. “We have four different players, from different areas of music, with mastery of their instruments, coming together,” asserts Motzer. “The chemistry was an immediate, ‘Wow!’”
Although all of PAKT‘s members are virtuosos, their work appears completely devoid of ego. “I’ve found over the years that, as a listener, I prefer a group dynamic to it being all about the individual,” Skolnick declares. “I have total respect for the featured soloist approach, but it’s not what I want to do. I can remember when I first got into jazz and improvised music, I took just as much interest in good accompaniment.”
Motzer maintains that the group isn’t consciously avoiding solo cliches. “In the early days of PAKT, Alex and I might blow a long time, and that’s cool, but what we’re trying to do now is more about the collective,” he says. “Forms are being created. Percy is finding the corners. We’re all identifying melody lines, little riffs that start giving shape to the piece that we’re doing.” Skolnick adds, “Sometimes you don’t need to play anything. Silence is great.”
Psychedelic Jazz Fusion
While PAKT performances are typically attended by metalheads, fusion enthusiasts, and general guitar nerds, the band has even started to attract fans of psychedelic music, à la the Grateful Dead, due to their spacier explorations—though Motzer notes that his psych influences are rooted in a myriad of British progressive bands. “My point of reference would be Gong and Steve Hillage’s solo work,” he explains. “Maybe Pink Floyd because I grew up with all that stuff. And King Crimson, of course—how can you not be inspired by them? So that probably peeks through.”
“Sometimes you don’t need to play anything. Silence is great.” - Alex Skolnick
On the other hand, Skolnick’s trippy propensities owe more to Brian Eno’s ambient music: “Another Green World is a big influence. I remember hearing those bass parts and thinking, ‘Wow! Who plays bass like that? That’s wild bass playing.’ Then, after we started PAKT, I was talking with Percy about it … and that’s him! That’s Percy!”
Additionally, Skolnick is inspired by early jazz-rock fusion recordings. “I’m influenced by space jazz from the late ’60s, early ’70s,” he explains. “For example, Terje Rypdal—I can’t believe more people don’t know his name. And Larry Coryell’s Spaces. It’s not music I’ve ever directly transcribed but I enjoy it as a vibe and listening experience. Also, Chick Corea’s Return to Forever before that was the band name and before he added guitarists. There’s something about those records that feels psychedelic. It was before jazz-rock was a genre, and the music is unpolished, uncharted, and exploratory. To me, that’s a big inspiration for PAKT.”And explore PAKT does. Unlike many jam bands who meander aimlessly through their improvs, PAKT’s music is more an investigation of rhythms, melodies, and tonalities: searching, discovering, developing, and moving on. As Motzer puts it, “It’s not like we’re going out to blow solos but more to create ‘sound worlds.’ It’s very much dealing with the unknown.”
The Serendipity of Effects
Alongside their technical virtuosity, a multitude of effects also play a major role in Skolnick and Motzer’s sounds. An abridged list of both guitarists’ effects reads like a Wikipedia entry on the history of guitar pedals. Still, whether creating the ethereal atmosphere on such tracks as “The Ghost Mill” or the abstract turbulence of “Wormhole,” the effects are consistently used in the service of the music, and sometimes dictate its trajectory.
“I really love when the pedals are doing stuff I didn’t expect,” says Motzer. “The sabotage aspect of pedals … I’ve always loved that. It just shoots the music off into some other terrain, and it’s something else to react to. I switch my brain off when I play and just listen and be and flow in the music. The pedals are an augmentation of that: more layers and textures that inspire me to go further.”
No Steps Left To Trace is a double-shot from the improv ensemble, featuring an LP of original compositions alongside a full live record.
Skolnick agrees: “When we start the show, I have my effects set so they’re pretty comfortable, but during the course of the show I will make adjustments and see where they go. Sometimes they go into uncharted territory.”
In addition to mainstays such as modulation, delay, and distortion, PAKT also incorporate a fair amount of live looping into their performances. These loops might be used for ambient drones, as heard on “On the Other Side, Part 1,” or to modify any given melodic line, as heard in “NYC III.” Motzer explains, “The multi-loopers can do different speeds. I have a Montreal Assembly pedal that plays an octave higher and twice as fast. It does some astounding things.”
Tim Motzer's Gear
Decades before PAKT, Alex Skolnick (far right) had been influenced by Percy Jones’ (far left) bass on Brian Eno’s ambient recordings.
Photo by Avraham Bank
Guitars
- Takamine EF341SC
- Takamine EF381SC
- Godin Multiac
- Danelectro baritone
- G&L Comanche
Amps
- Fender Deluxe Reverb
- Fender Hot Rod Deluxe
Strings & Picks
- D’Addario 80/20 Bronze Acoustic Guitar Strings Light (.012-.053)
- D’Addario Electric (.012-.053)
- Ernie Ball Slinky (.010-.046)
- Jim Dunlop Jazztone 477-208 picks
Effects
- DigiTech Whammy Ricochet
- Eventide H9 Max
- TC Electronic Overdrive/Boost
- Chase Bliss Lossy
- Chase Bliss Blooper
- Red Panda Tensor
- Drolo Strands
- Paul Trombetta Burning Sensation
- Pigtronix Cosmosis
- Roland GR-33
From years of experience, Skolnick and Motzer have advice for players looking for new pedals. “We’re in the richest time for affordable effects,” Motzer says gleefully. “Pedals are coming from China that are $40, which actually sound good. So people can start out and grab pedals that don’t cost that much. It’s a transformational moment in sound.”
Skolnick concurs that one doesn’t need to break the bank to get new sounds. “Many conventional pedals have options that can get really outside,” he says. “If you take a reverb pedal and crank the decay, you suddenly get this instant atmosphere. Similarly, a typical chorus or flange pedal, if you crank the speed to 10, you’ll get this wild sound. Then I loop it. There’s a drone. Then I dial down the decay and I can play over that. Almost any pedal has an extreme function. One pedal in particular is the [JAM Pedals] Delay Llama, which has an independent expression pedal, and by turning that up and down it becomes not a guitar at all—wild, synthesizer-like sounds.” Skolnick warns that if you overindulge the pedal knobs, then you should play less on the fretboard, letting the effects do the work.
Skolnick says his signature ESP model is like “a hot-rodded Les Paul” with a whammy bar. “I was never a big whammy bar person, because by the early ’90s everybody was crazy with the whammy bar, so I told my guitar techs, ‘Lock up all the tremolo bars. I want to make a statement without that.’ But now, since I think I’ve proven I can get by without one [laughs], I’ve allowed myself to start using it.” In addition to his ESP, Skolnick plays an Allparts Strat with PAKT.
Meanwhile, Motzer’s main guitar for years has been a Takamine acoustic, which he plays “like a drum” with loops. This came out of Motzer’s performances with various dance troupes. “I could create these structures for dancers, and we’d interact back and forth, so we would improvise together,” he says. “That’s how that guitar ended up being my main axe. It just felt like more of a complete expression of who I am.” When asked if he was playing “guitar percussion” on No Steps Left To Trace, Motzer told me, “For sure, but I couldn’t tell you where!” For their 2024 tour, Motzer says he’ll switch things up with solidbody G&L and Godin options, the latter with a synth-guitar component.
The Ever-Unfolding Listening Ensemble
While both guitarists agree that there are plenty of improvisational tactics to keep their playing fresh and inventive, they’re adamant regarding the most vital aspect of group improv: listening. Skolnick attributes his listening habits in PAKT to the elite-level skill and imagination each of his bandmates have. “This group is just a great excuse to listen, to play things that accompany the whole picture.”
The individual skill levels in PAKT are off the charts, but the musicians are less concerned with their own playing, and more interested in listening to what their bandmates are doing.
Photo by Avraham Bank
Motzer sums it up: “It’s really about listening, reacting to each other, and trying to make the best music we can. When we play, we don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t know what the mood of the night is going to bring. We are continually trying to unfold this thing that we have. And there is such a trust there that each time we get together, it gets more exciting.”
YouTube It
During the lockdown in August 2020, PAKT assembled in a Brooklyn studio to map out “Sacred Ladder” from their very literally self-titled 2021 LP, Percy Jones, Alex Skolnick, Kenny Grohowski, Tim Motzer.
Together with his younger brother, drummer Carlton “Carly” Barrett, Fams created and established much of the hypnotic pulse and infectious vibe that characterizes reggae rhythms.
It’s hard to think of any player who embodied this idea of bass as connection more than Aston “Family Man” Barrett. Though (like most bass players) he’s not exactly a household name, he truly should be: As the long-time bassist, arranger, and coproducer of Bob Marley and the Wailers, his musical innovations and memorable lines are exceedingly familiar to anyone who has ever heard reggae music. “Fams,” as he was known, died in February of this year at 77, leaving a long legacy of reggae mastery.
Indeed, as Family Man was one of reggae’s original creators, he helped birth the bass-heavy Jamaican genre into existence from its stylistic precursors, ska and rocksteady. Together with his younger brother, drummer Carlton “Carly” Barrett, Fams created and established much of the hypnotic pulse and infectious vibe that characterizes reggae rhythms. Family Man’s feel was firm yet relaxed, his tone deep, dark, and plush. It was with these bottom-heavy colors, coaxed from a Höfner “Beatle” bass in his early years, then from his flatwound-strung Fender Jazz bass, that Aston Barrett crafted snaky, syncopated hooks and short melodic phrases that bolstered the vocal melodies while playing against the bouncing backbeats of the rhythm guitar and organ.
Before building his first bass from plywood and a length of 2“x4”, Barrett’s first musical love was singing along to American soul artists on Jamaican radio. “When I’m playing the bass, it’s like I’m singing,” Fams told music journalist Bill Murphy in a 2007 Bass Player magazine interview. “I compose a melodic line and see myself like I’m singing baritone.” You can hear his vocal-like bass stylings in songs like “Is This Love” and “Waiting in Vain.” These and many other Barrett bass lines serve as countermelodies, animated motifs that play against each song’s main vocal melody. Family Man’s parts are often easy to sing along to, so it’s easy to imagine Fams singing them in his head.
“Fams not only kept that intragroup connection strong, but he also went beyond the bass, creating and composing many of the intricate, interconnecting parts you can hear in any Bob Marley and the Wailers recording.”
The Barrett brothers played in several early reggae bands before joining the Wailers full-time in 1972, including famed producer Lee “Scratch” Perry’s house band, the Upsetters. In 1969, when the original Upsetters lineup couldn’t make a U.K. tour due to a scheduling conflict, Aston and Carlton’s band the Hippy Boys became the new Upsetters. In this group, they backed a pantheon of early reggae artists, including the Wailers, a vocal trio with Marley, Peter Tosh, and Bunny Wailer. The Upsetters eventually became the core of the Wailers’ rhythm section. Tosh and Bunny Wailer left the band in 1974.
It was years before, though, well before he had children (and he had a lot of children) that Aston Barrett began calling himself “Family Man.” This reflected how he saw it as his role to keep the band together. As the Wailers’ bandleader, arranger, and co-producer, Fams not only kept that intragroup connection strong, but he also went beyond the bass, creating and composing many of the intricate, interconnecting parts you can hear in any Bob Marley and the Wailers recording. But his primary musical connection was with his brother, Carly. Among other reggae conventions, the Barrett brothers pioneered the “one drop” rhythmic style, in which the bass and drums skip the downbeat—dropping the one—as you can hear in the bass and drum parts of songs like “Trenchtown Rock” and “One Drop.”
I met Family Man at the photo shoot for that 2007 Bass Player cover story, and again in 2012 when Phil Chen and I interviewed him onstage during the weekend he received his Bass Player Lifetime Achievement Award. During the photo shoot, we also shot a short video interview, which you can find on YouTube, where he demonstrates the “One Drop” bass line, plucking with his thumb between the end of the neck and the neck pickup. Even barely amplified, you can feel the depth that comes from Family Man’s bass approach. In the Marley years, that huge “earth sound” came from two Acoustic 18" speaker cabinets and two 4x15 cabinets. “You need them that big to get that sound,” Barrett told Murphy, “because reggae music is the heartbeat of the people. It’s the universal language what carry that heavy message of roots, culture, and reality. So the bass have to be heavy and the drums have to be steady.”Aston "Family Man" Barrett, Bob Marley & the Wailers bassist - 2007 Bass Player mag. interview 1/2
Here's the first part of Bill Leigh’s 2007 interview with Bob Marley & the Wailers' bassist Aston "Family Man" Barrett.
| Even if you don’t know them by name, Buckcherry is a band you’ve most likely caught yourself tapping a foot to – the rockers from L.A. have spent close to an entire decade on the charts with singles like, “Lit Up” and “Check Your Head”, and served as a refreshing, Les Paul-driven kick in the gut after emerging from the ashes of the late-‘90s pop music scene. When their third album, 15, dropped in April 2006, the hardest working band around earned comparisons to some of hard rock’s legends (read: AC/DC). The album’s first single, “Crazy Bitch,” was nominated for a Grammy for Best Hard Rock Performance, and that just hints at the raw, to-the-roots style of rock that Buckcherry cultivates on a daily basis. We caught up with guitarists Keith Nelson and Stevie D in the middle of their tour to talk about their unique sound and the gear that makes it happen. |
Your debut album came out in 1999. What was the musical environment like when you got the band together?
Keith: We really came up in the middle of rap rock and Lillith Fair. Swing music was also kind of happening at the time. Guys that slung Les Pauls low, and actually played them – that wasn’t really happening.
Was that discouraging at all for you guys?
Keith: When [lead singer] Josh and I got together, we talked about making just a straight-up rock band. I don’t think it was discouraging, but almost inspiring that we weren’t going to sound like everyone else.
In your reviews, it seems that an AC/DC reference is always dropped. How do you feel about that? Is that a big shadow to work under? Stevie: For me, it’s a huge compliment. I’m a huge fan of the Young brothers and the blues that they touch on with their records, so anytime there’s a reference drawn like that, I’m really happy.
Keith: I always enjoy a comparison to a band that doesn’t suck. There’s a lot of nuance to that AC/DC reference that I don’t think a lot of people like. I’m a huge fan, and I have been since I was old enough to hoist a vinyl record on the turntable. They’re one of the few bands that can make the same record over and over and totally get away with it.
So were they one of the first bands that got you on your way to rock stardom?
Keith: Absolutely. I can remember one of my earliest experiences as a kid that loved music, and always being into music, as listening to Back in Black out of an old wooden stereo in my parent’s living room. I remember thinking to myself, “that just sounds evil and dark.” And they didn’t need “666” all over the record cover – the sound of Back in Black is just heavy, without being tuned down to C. It was life changing, for sure.
I just listened to your latest album, 15, for the second time and I’m hearing all kinds of influences, from rock to blues to country. Where do you guys pull those sounds from?
Stevie: Well, we’re all big blues fans – Jimmy [Ashhurst, bass] is well-versed in country and he’s our onboard rock n’ roll historian. I’ve learned a lot from each guy in this band, as far as the history of rock. For me, guys like Howlin’ Wolf and Muddy Waters are tucked away in there. Keith has a lot of the chicken pickin’ and slide thing going on in his background. We try to cover a lot of that music, we’re trying to keep that going, and hopefully that’s what sets us apart from the other bands out there. Keith: I think we have so many things flying around the room, in terms of influences, in terms of country to funk and punk. If you listened to our iPods on the bus, you’ll hear all kinds of stuff. We’re really just fans of great music – for me, sounding bluesy isn’t a problem, the challenge is making it sound like it belongs in today’s music.
Stevie, you came on board a bit later in the band’s history. Do you have a role when you sit down to create songs?
Stevie: For me, it’s about creating space. It’s about not stepping on each other’s toes, and I think Keith feels the same way. Somebody will come into the room with a musical idea, and what we do is kind of let it play out. It’s like putting a skeleton in the room, and the job for the rest of us is to give that skeleton shape. A personality.
Do you feel like you guys are still evolving in your sound?
Keith: I think so. I think our first record was made so quickly, and the fact that we did it ourselves, and so I think our next records should be a bit deeper. Maybe we’ll spend three weeks in the studio instead of two.
I really dig the guitar tones coming off the album. How’d you get those sounds together?
Stevie: Keith has an arsenal of vintage amps, as well as our co-producer, Mike Plotnikoff. But what we used mostly on the record were Keith’s amps – for me, it was mostly a JTM45, but there were Plexis, Park amps … every vintage rock amp from the ‘60s and ‘70s was at our disposal.
Live, I’ve been using a Budda Superdrive 80. Open, loud and raw. It’s also got a great middle. In smaller rooms, I use the Superdrive 45 – they’re great. The Twinmaster is also a great combo amp, and it kicks the shit out of most other amps I’ve heard. I think they only made a limited number, and I managed to get my hands on one.
Keith: I have a pretty extensive gear collection, and I’ve been at it for a while. I usually try to go for the older stuff – I pretty much have every vintage Marshall, every vintage Vox you’ll need. But on 15, you’re hearing a lot of Super Lead 100s, a ‘66 JTM45, an old AC30 Top Boost and an armload of vintage guitars.
What guitars should we be listening for on your latest album?
Stevie: For me, I really connected with the JTM45. It was punchy, spanky and had a great bottom end. I coupled that with a ‘62 SG Junior. It’s been reworked with humbuckers, Gibson PAFs. I did leads with that same configuration and a Tube Screamer thrown in, or the Red Rooster pedal, for that wooly quality. I really like that wooly, ‘60s lead tone, like Hendrix. The clear ryhthms, on like a song like “Sorry,” I used a ‘62 reissue Strat.
Keith: On the album, I have an old Gretsch 6120 that I do a lot of the rhythm tracks with. I also have a ‘51 Esquire that’s on there a lot. Right before the record started, I went through a bit of a Strat phase, and picked up a ‘71 Strat that’s great. There’s also a lot of Les Paul Junior on the record.
So do you guys toy around with pedals or effects much? Or do you try to keep your signal clean? Stevie: Not so much – in the studio, there’s not a lot of pedal effects for my side – I’m on the right side with the rhythms, Keith is on the left side [in the stereo spectrum], so you won’t hear a lot of effects on me. Live, I use a Tube Screamer and a wah pedal. Just recently, I switched to Budda, because they’re making such great pedals. br>
I try to keep it simple like that, because I feel like I’m jumping around so much, I can get confused if I have to hit a couple pedals at one time. Less is more for me anymore. I had some more pedals in the chain, but I just kind of found that it was too much. br>
Keith: I’m not a real big pedal guy. The guys at Keeley make these true bypass loopers, and I’ve been using that because I don’t really want anything in the way. And we still use cables, we’re not wireless.
Is there a reason you haven’t gone wireless?
Keith: It sounds better. I toyed with wireless a few years back, and every time I’d have a problem with the wireless, I’d plug the cable back in and just say, “damn, that sounds great!” Mogami cable is really solid.
Wrapping up, you guys kind of represent a younger generation of guys playing true rock and roll. Is there any advice you’ve picked up for people listening and trying to get into it?
Stevie: A lot of the bands we play with at festivals, they’re not learning to play their instruments like they used to. There’s very little emphasis placed on songwriting. So if you want to stand out, really learn your instrument, and learn about tone. Try out different things, and listen to a lot of records. Listen, listen, listen.
Keith: There are really two sides to it. On one side, we see these guys playing with tracks behind them. Really concentrate on being great players and performers, so you don’t have to rely on tracks behind you to pull it all off.
The other side is that this is all a business, so you need to educate yourself on how all the parts work together, otherwise it will be a long road.
| Stevie’s Gearbox When Stevie plugs in to rock out, here’s what he’s grabbing.
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