Always the drummer, Grohl thinks of the Foos’ approach to guitar parts as different limbs. Shiflett handles the 8th-note movement, Grohl pounds on the backbeats, and Smear simply crushes the downbeat. The result has shaped stadium rock for decades.
Back in February, the trio convened in Studio 607 for a sitdown that is destined to be an instant classic among Shred with Shiftydiehards. Below are a few excerpts from the conversation—edited for clarity—that hit on what first inspired Dave and Pat to pick up a guitar, why there was so much feedback at Germs gigs, and that one time they ran into Joe Bonamassa at Guitar Center. You can watch the full episode on YouTube, where they break down “Hey, Johnny Park!,” “La Dee Da,” “Rope,” and so much more. — Jason Shadrick
Chris Shiflett: Alrighty, fellas, let's jump into it. You're in the hot seat now.
Dave Grohl: Oh God. Here we go.
Shiflett: Let's start off easy. What are you playing today?
Grohl: This is my signature DG-335 Epiphone and it's fucking rad. Love it. Been playing it on tour.
Pat Smear: It's not even out.
Dave: Is it not out yet?
Smear: No. Only rumors.
Shiflett: For the sake of this interview, it might be out by the time this airs, so we could be in a time machine. Pat, how did you go from being a guy who famously borrowed guitars at Germs gigs, didn't own one of your own, to the man we see here today with a barn full of guitars?
Smear: That's why, because I didn't even have my own guitar, so I'm like, well, now I need two.
Shiflett: … hundred … thousand. [laughs]. What are you playing today?
Smear: I am playing prototype number one, made by Mike McGuire from the Gibson Custom Shop. It's a Mini Barney Kessel Triburst prototype from 2011. May 11th, 2011.
Shiflett: Do you also have a baritone back there?
Smear: I do. My Hagstrom baritones are on tour, so that's my SG baritone. It's a funny guitar. I'm told that it was originally going to be a Buckethead model, his new model, and he just disappeared. So, they put it out as a baritone.
Grohl: He flew the coop?
Shiflett: When you first came back to the Foos, why did you land on a baritone so much of the time? Had you played much baritone prior to that?
Smear: I played one a little bit. I played one on The Color and the Shape album. That sounded great, but I never played it live. But then, what am I going to do? There are already two guitar players. When we were doing Wasting Light, I'm like, “What am I going to fit in here? Well, nobody's playing baritone. I'll pull that out.”
Grohl: And that’s the story of the Foo Fighters. [laughs]
Shiflett: What made you guys want to be guitar players in the first place? Because probably a lot of people don't know that the guitar actually came before drums, right?
Grohl: Yeah. My father was a classically trained flautist, and my mother bought him a nylon-string, which I don't think he ever played, but it sat in the corner of the room like a piece of furniture, and by the time I got to it I was maybe like eight or nine years old and it maybe had two or three strings on it. I picked it up and played “Smoke on the Water” or something like that. I understood where to put my hands on the frets, and then I was like, “wow, this is cool.”
Shiflett: Did you ever take lessons?
Grohl: I took a few lessons when I first started playing, and I was disappointed because I wanted to learn how to play chords so I could play along to things. I could hear the songs and sort of figure them out, but I was stuck with just getting my little-kid stuff together. And then the teacher started to try to teach me classical. I remember he taught me this thing. [plays short classical piece].
Smear: It worked! It's still there.
Grohl: I was like, fuck that shit.
“I don't even know what a good guitar sound is, but I do know when I play an old Trini through the Tone Master, I really have control over what I'm doing.” — Dave Grohl
Shiflett: What about you, Pat? What made you want to be a guitar player?
Smear: It was my sister Ingrid, who is a couple of years older. She had a nylon-string acoustic guitar in the house. I had those forced piano lessons when I was a kid, and I would cry through the whole thing. I hated it so much, and then I picked up the guitar and I'm like, “Oh, well, that's my thing.” But it was really [Alice Cooper’s] Love it to Death. That picture on the back cover. I'm like, I want to do this. I want to play that.
Shiflett: It's funny how that still informs your guitar choices. Who would you consider your primary guitar influences?
Grohl: I really liked Ace Frehley. I mean, I had a Beatles chord book, and that's where I was learning to play chords and stuff, but I never saw footage of the Beatles playing when I was eight or nine. I just thought Ace was so fucking cool looking, and I loved the way he stood, and I loved his Les Paul, and I thought that I could be a guitarist and look like him without all the fucking heels and the makeup and shit.
Smear: I don't know that I had one. I had a bunch. I had all the usual ones, but I thought Mick Ronson was the coolest, but as far as the playing, it was the Alice Cooper guys.
It wasn’t until the band started recording Wasting Light, that Pat Smear dived into the baritone guitar. “What am I going to fit in here?” thought Smear. “Well, nobody's playing baritone. I'll pull that out.”
Shiflett: When did you figure out that you needed a certain kind of gear to make it sound like the record?
Dave: It's funny. My mother bought me a Silvertone, like an old one from Sears with an amp in the case and everything, and it was cool. But then I found out about a distortion pedal. I don't know how, but I think I was in a music store and I saw one, and I said to my mom, I was like, “oh my God, mom, can I get it?” It was 30 bucks. It was an MXR. And I was like, “This is going to make it sound so much better.” And she's like, “Oh, good.” And we buy it and bring it home. After I plugged it in, she was like, “I thought you said it was going to make it sound good!”
Shiflett: It's distorting the sound. [Laughs]
Dave: Yeah, it doesn't sound good.
Shiflett: I had a little solid-state practice amp, and I'd go home and I'd try to play whatever I learned in my lesson and it wouldn't grit up at all. And you'd just kind of be confused. Why doesn't this sound like the Ozzy record? It doesn’t sound right!
Smear: I know! I never knew anything about that part of it.
Grohl: Well, you didn't even have any fucking gear. [Laughs]
Smear: I didn't even have gear. I didn't have a guitar. I didn't have an amp.
Shiflett: What was the time that you showed up at a Germs show and had to borrow somebody else's gear?
Smear: Well, that happened all the time, but the worst one was we were playing with X and I broke my guitar in the first song, and so I'm like, “I need Billy Zoom's guitar!” And, dude, I found out he was hiding in some closet with his guitar saying, “Keep him away from my fucking guitar.” I'm all drunk. I think somebody just taped it back together and we were okay.
Grohl: Is this why there was always so much fucking feedback at Germs gigs? You had no pedals, you would just crank the amp?
Smear: Well, if there was a pedal, I would just step on it and leave it there. And my favorite when I hear old tapes is tuning full volume with the pedal on.
Shiflett: Well, let's talk a little bit about your live rigs that you've gotten nowadays and how that's kind of changed over the years.
Smear: Yeah, Dave, talk about your live rig. [Laughs]
Grohl: Okay, just a disclaimer. I don't know a fucking thing. At first I was playing a Marshall, it was like a JCM 900 or something like that. For the first [Foo Fighters] album, that's what I was playing.
Shiflett: Pedals? No pedals?
Grohl: I really think I only had a RAT pedal and a fucking tuner. I don't think I had any delays or phasers or anything yet. I think I just had a RAT. Then eventually the Mesa/Boogies came along and it was like Dual Rectifiers and 4x12s and that kind of stuff. And then eventually I found one of those [Fender] Tone Masters at Norman’s [Rare Guitars]. And he was like, “These are great, man. This is what Aerosmith used on all of their cool shit.” I've stuck with them ever since. And the thing is that, I mean, I don't even know what a good guitar sound is, but I do know when I play an old Trini through that, I really have control over what I'm doing. I don't have any volume pedals or anything like that. I've got four channels of clean to dirty.
Shiflett: You do have a pretty straightforward live set up. Not a ton of pedals, just phaser and delay and a couple of things.
Grohl: And I can roll [the volume knob] a lot. I mean, that's the thing with the Trini is that they're kind of reactive. They're dynamic and you can make them do …
Shiflett: It leaves a lot in your hands.
Grohl: It does. And especially when you're running around the stage and I don't have 20 seconds to get back to a pedalboard, then I could just roll up and down and just do it in the hands.
“But it was really [Alice Cooper’s] Love it to Death. That picture on the back cover. I'm like, I want to do this. I want to play that.” — Pat Smear
Shiflett: It's interesting. When I joined the band I was playing through a Dual Rectifier and I think you were playing through a Dual Rectifier live, but I was surprised to learn that for Nothing Left to Lose you had used the Trini and old vintage AC-30s and Memory Man, and Hiwatts, so your studio thing and your live thing were very different.
Grohl: I remember having that conversation with my guitar tech at the time, and the justification was basically, if one of those things goes down while we're on the road, we're kind of screwed. And so the Rectifiers were really consistent and you didn't have a lot of problems with them, and if you needed to find another one, they were easy to find.
Smear: And they'd send them like that. [snaps fingers]
Grohl: Yeah, they'd be really quick. And we were just doing that because we were blazing through gigs so much.
Shiflett: I don't remember which tour cycle it was, but there was just a point where when you got that Tone Master and I came in with a Friedman and a something else or an AC, I forget what it was, all of a sudden it went from that to this completely other tone thing live.
Smear: We all had the Mesas.
Grohl: I think we had gotten to the point where we all had sort of three different sounds and three different duties in the band, and so we all started to focus more on that.
Both Grohl and Shiflett are armed with their respective signature guitars. Grohl’s recently released Epiphone DG-335 has been long requested by fans, while Shiflett’s Tele Deluxe will soon get a refresh.
Shiflett: I never had any effect pedals until I joined the band. Can you believe that?
Grohl: Wow.
Shiflett: Never, never played with a delay pedal or a flanger or any of that stuff in my life. And when we first started doing those rehearsals and there were songs like “Aurora” and “Generator” and stuff that had some color, that was when I had to first learn how to do that.
Grohl: I think that a lot of what we do comes from the studio. When we go in to record songs, the basic idea is usually pretty simple and we'll pull that together and then we start to color it with different things, different sections of the song, different effects, different tones, and things like that. And also the arrangement or composition of the three of us doing what we do since we don't want to just do the same thing all the time. I think it took 15 or 20 years for us to figure out the recipe or combination of what we do.
Shiflett: I wanted to talk to you about, “Hey, Johnny Park!” I remember when I bought that record, putting that song on and the big drums came in and then the guitars kicked in, it's like a guitar solo and there wasn't a lot of that in your music, and there really wasn't a lot of that even in alternative rock at that time. I was listening to the recorded version last night and it sounds like maybe it's like a Big Muff or something in that part? Do you remember what guitars you were playing? What amps, pedals, all that sort of stuff?
Grohl: I'm sure on that I was playing through a combination of amps. I think one was old Marshall. I think another might've been a Hiwatt. I don't remember what we had in there.
Smear: The only amp I remember was when you used that smokey cigarette amp. I don't even remember what song it was. But you used that on something.
Shiflett: What was your main go-to guitar back then?
Grohl: I was using the Trini a lot.
Shiflett: Oh, you had it even back then?
Grohl: Yeah, I got the Trini before Foo Fighters. I got it at this place called Southworth Guitars in Bethesda, Maryland, and there was a row of 335s and they're all red. They all kind of looked the same. And then there was this one with this different headstock and it had these diamond f-holes. I knew nothing about it. I didn't know anything about Trini Lopez. And it turned out great. It's the same one that I've used on fucking everything.
Shiflett: How many Trinis do you have? Vintage old ones?
Grohl: Maybe like five or six of them.
Shiflett: I didn't know if you were the Joe Bonamassa of Trinis.
Grohl: No, I’m not the Joe Bonamassa of anything.
Shiflett: I bet Joe Bonamassa is probably the Joe Bonamassa of Trinis. [Laughs.] That reminds me. My favorite guitar shopping moment with Pat was when we were making the last album and we were sitting there and we ran over to the rock and roll Guitar Center, and we went into the vintage room and we're looking at guitars.
Smear: Was Bonamassa there taking apart a Strat?
Shiflett: Yes, but the part that always sticks in my head is there was a 1997 Les Paul and they called it “vintage.” I was like, what? Really? God, how fucking vintage are we? [Laughs.]
Grohl: I just think we’re “used.”
When Chris Shiflett left No Use for a Name and joined the Foo Fighters in 1999, he almost had no gear. The band was rehearsing to support their third album, There Is Nothing Left to Lose, and leader Dave Grohl was doing an inventory check on their newest member.
“Dave asked me how many guitars I had, and I said, ‘Well, I have two, but one has a broken headstock,’” recalls Shiflett. “Dave chuckled and said, ‘We gotta get you a few more guitars.’”
The duo ventured down to Sunset Boulevard hitting all the guitar shops and Grohl gifted Shifty a pair of Gibsons (that we’ll meet later). (This story is even more proof that Grohl is one of the coolest rock stars ever.)
“I had been going to some of those Sunset stores since I was a teenager, and they’re never nice to you because they know you’re not buying anything. So, when I went in there with Dave Grohl and his AmEx card, it was a real moment for me. Here I am joining my dream band, and he’s like, get whatever you want … and he really meant it!”
Shiflett’s gear germination didn’t stop there. “When I joined the band, I didn’t have any pedals. And now my bandmates constantly make fun of me for the size of my pedalboard—it’s ridiculously big and there are a lot of pedals on it—but my view has always been, ‘as long as I don’t have to carry it around, bring them all [laughs].’”
But they all serve a purpose and allow Chris to stand out in a three-guitar band. “I do love that my role in Foos over the years has become the color guy with all these pedals.”
His growth as an artist doesn’t stop there. Shiflett’s put out punk albums in Jackson United and for nearly 25 years, he sparked endless good times in the best punk-rock cover band (Me First and the Gimme Gimmes). In 2010, he shifted his creative outlet to busting out alt-country twangers and Bakersfield barroom bruisers as Chris Shiflett & the Dead Peasants, and then, later, solo. Since 2013, he’s been hosting a podcast (Walking The Floor with Chris Shiflett) that’s featured conversations with Wolfgang Van Halen, Mike Campbell, Greta Van Fleet, Billy Strings, and recent Rig Rundown subject Marcus King. Where does the dude find the time?!
Following Foo Fighters' recent Taylor Hawkins Tribute Concert at L.A.’s Kia Forum to honor their dearly departed drummer, Shiflett carved out some precious time and invited PG’s Chris Kies to the Foo’s HQ, Studio 606. The laidback conversation covered his essential live guitars (including a not-so-golden ’57 Les Paul and a few gracious gifts from Grohl), some custom Friedmans, and a pair of unusual AC30 stacks that only he and Sir Paul have … and all his pedals that sting, sparkle, shimmer, and sizzle.
Brought to you by D’Addario XS Coated Strings.
All That Glitters Is Not Gold
This 1957 Gibson Les Paul started out its long life as a goldtop. Shiflett believes that the rest of the instrument is true to the day it left Kalamazoo. He says in the Rundown that he bargained with himself to sell about 20 guitars on a Reverb shop with the idea of parlaying that scratch for one or two “magic guitars.” They tallied up his credit and started dusting off their most-valuable coffers. He was drawn to this one for its sound and character as a player-grade holy grail Les Paul—with its stripped finish and broken headstock. He originally thought it’d be a studio piece, but fellow Foo Pat Smear told him he had to bust it out for tours … which he now has for years. This one stays in standard tuning and takes D’Addario NYXLs (.010–.046).
Pawsome Picks
Shiflett uses lighter-gauged Dunlop Tortex picks that feature the band’s logo on one side and his husky Lucky on the other.
Meet the Cleaver
Ten years ago, Shiflett was honored with a MIM Fender Telecaster Deluxe signature. A few years later, Chris revisited the Tele Deluxe design with Fender’s Masterbilt team and devised this devilish T. They dubbed it “Cleaver, because it positively slashes through the mix,” he says. Specs include a 2-piece alder body, quartersawn maple neck, 21 medium jumbo frets on a rosewood ’board, a large ’70s-style headstock, Schaller tuners, and the Hattori Hanzō-sharp blade of this beauty is a custom pair of Lindy Fralin P-90 Soapbar pickups that are noiseless and slightly overwound.
Ace Gift from Grohl
This Les Paul Custom (Shiflett thinks it’s from 1989–1991) was one of the guitars Grohl bought him back in 1999. It’s seen a lot of pickup combinations, but it currently has a Seymour Duncan JB (bridge) and a ’59 (neck). Shiflett’s a big Kiss fan, so he threw on the Ace Frehley sticker. He’s put a lot of miles on this stallion, and he says that it gallops and grooves best while in drop-D for songs like “Monkey Wrench” and “Everlong.”
The Cheapest Way to a Signature Guitar is…
getting a custom truss rod cover made and slapping it on the headstock, as seen here.
C’s Flying V
This 2002 Gibson Flying V was the first axe Shiflett ordered fresh from a guitar company. He got it just before touring in support of 2002’s One by One (the first Foo’s album he contributed to). In the Rundown, he shared his thoughts on the body shape: “As impractical as they are to play sitting down, god, they’re amazing to play standing up!” The V currently has a set of Fralin Pure P.A.F. humbuckers that are “really musical and clear.”
Dave Does It Again
This prized Gibson Explorer was the first guitar he was gifted from Grohl, ahead of his first tour in the Foo Fighters. It’s all stock except for a Seymour Duncan JB subbed into the bridge position.
Can’t You Hear Me Rocking?
When you play in an arena-filling, three-guitar rock band, you need to bring it. Shiflett toggles between the custom, two-channel Friedman Brown Eye 100W head and the Vox AC30 head. For the heavier, distorted songs, he goes with the Friedman, while the Vox is used for softer songs like “Aurora.” Both 4x12 stacks have a backup head. Shiflett claims in the Rundown that his Vox rep stated that only he and Sir Paul have AC30 4x12 stacks. Now that’s some splendid company to share!
Friedman Firepower
Here’s a closeup of the settings Shiflett’s dialed in for the Brown Eye.
Vox’s Vocals
And here’s the recipe for Shiflett’s AC30 jangle and chime.
Chris Shiflett’s Pedalboard
His current pedal playground is home to all sorts of tone toys. Starting in the top left he has an Electro-Harmonix Micro POG, a JHS Muffuletta, a pair of MXRs (Flanger and EVH Phase 90), an EHX Holy Grail reverb, a Strymon Deco, and a Klon KTR. The next row starts with a Boss CE-2W Waza Craft Chorus, a couple of Strymon TimeLines (one for each amp), and down below is a trio of Xotics—an EP Booster, SP Compressor, and an XW-1. Utilitarian boxes include a Lehle Little Dual amp switcher, Palmer PLI-05 Dual Channel Line Isolation Box, Boss FS-5L footswitch (to toggle between clean and dirty on the Friedman), and a TC Electronic PolyTune that keeps all his guitars singing on key.
Intermediate
Beginner
•Learn the chordal and rhythmic approach behind some of the Foo Fighters' most iconic songs.
•Create jangly chords that use ringing open strings.
•Develop a deep appreciation for grungy dissonance.
Flyin’ Lessons
Let's start with the two chord grips shown in Ex. 1. Grab a garden-variety open E chord using your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th fingers. This fingering allows you to move the shape up the neck while leaving your 1st finger free to grab the root note on the 6th string while letting the two highest strings ring out. Like a barre chord, this voicing can be slid up and down the neck. This fretboard strategy was a favorite move of Rush's Alex Lifeson and it's no secret that Dave Grohl is an unabashed Rush fan.
Play through Ex. 2 to get a feel for how Grohl appropriated this cool chordal trick to enliven such Foo tunes as "This Is a Call" and "Learning to Fly." Remember to keep your hand in place and let each chord ring throughout the entire measure's arpeggio.
Ex. 2
Foo Fighters - Learn To Fly (Live At Wembley Stadium, 2008)
Octave-ate
One recurring sonic weapon in the mighty Foo Fighter arsenal is the use of sliding octave shapes which are often played against open 6th- and 5th-string drones. Familiarize yourself with the two octave fingerings in Ex. 3. The first involves a two-fret stretch and the second uses a three-fret stretch. I recommend using your 1st and 4th finger for both.
Once you have these in your muscle memory, have a go at Ex. 4, which pits the shapes against droning open strings, turning what might've been an otherwise pedestrian E to A change into a melodic riff with major 6, major 7, and major 9 color tones. You can use either all downstrokes or alternate strums to help catch the vibe of the pre-choruses to "Everlong," the chorus of "Best of You" and "My Hero" or the main riff of "Learning to Fly."
Ex. 4
Foo Fighters - My Hero (Reading + Leeds 2019)
(Odd) Times Like These
One compositional tactic Grohl seems to have mastered is the use of tension and release. More specifically, the juxtaposition of a disjointed dissonant part against a harmonically/melodically satisfying one. This is often accomplished with a highly syncopated or odd-metered rhythmic attack or the deployment a harmonically ambiguous chord voicing such as the Dm7(no 3rd) in Ex. 5 which can be slid up or down chromatically for added angst.
To hear these techniques in action, listen to the opening chord salvo and 7/4 groove of the soaring intro of "Times Like These," or the brutal rhythm guitar fisticuffs during the verses of "All My Life." Then play through Ex. 6 to see how they can be easily applied. When listening to the recorded example, notice the guitar is silent on beat one of the 7/4 measure leaving the bass to sound the downbeat, creating an evocative "call-and-response" effect.
Ex. 6
Foo Fighters “All My Life” on the Howard Stern Show
Colourful Chord Shapes
The Foo Fighters' 1995 eponymous debut album—which was essentially written and recorded entirely by Grohl—proved that he was more than just an exceptional drummer, but it was 1997's follow-up The Colour and the Shape that solidly established them as one of the great rock bands of their generation. Not surprisingly "Everlong," a song from that release, has gone on to became the band's "de facto" anthem. In order to deconstruct this modern rock masterpiece, you'll need to be in drop-D tuning, which requires lowering your guitar's 6th string down a whole step (making its tuning D–A–D–G–B–E, low to high). Most of the chord shapes during the song's verse are some variation of the standard-issue D5 shown in Ex. 7.
Slide it up to the 9th position while extending your first finger for a partial barre of the bottom two strings to sound the Bm(sus2), then slide it down another whole step to the 7th position while lifting your third finger to grab the A5.
Once you've mastered these three basic variations, use them in several positions to play through Ex. 8. Although not a note-for-note transcription, playing this example with downstrokes should put you in the ballpark for sleuthing out the inimitably iconic intro to "Everlong."
Ex. 8
Stacked and (Un-Stacked) 6-Strings
Although the Foo Fighters are a quintessential rock band in many respects, something you won't really find in their music is gratuitous guitar solos. Instead of fretboard gymnastics, Grohl's 6-string co-conspirators ( Chris Shifflett since 1999, and Pat Smear since 2010 who rejoined after touring with the band during their earliest incarnation) generally focus on adding complementary melodic lines voiced on the high strings. This less-is-more approach is demonstrated in Ex. 8—a single-note melody articulated against an open-high-E drone.
While this melodic phrase may sound pleasant enough on its own, it really springs to life when layered on top. You can hear this juxtaposition on the repeat of the audio example or you can check out the general technique in action on Foo Fighter essentials like "Everlong" Monkey Wrench," "My Hero," and "Walk."
Foo Fighters - Everlong (Live At Wembley Stadium, 2008)
Grace Notes
After being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this past year, the Foo Fighters can rightfully take their place alongside the great hard rock bands of all time. And like many of the all- time greats, The Foos are equally adept rocking out on acoustic steel-strings as they are when cranked through high-gain stacks. One particularly poignant acoustic moment from the album Echoes, Silence, Patience, and Grace is the instrumental "Ballad of the Beaconsfield Miners" which was inspired by two miners in Australia who requested an iPod loaded with Foo Fighters songs be sent down to them during the rescue mission after the mine they were in collapsed. (They were eventually freed unharmed, and met up with a visibly moved Grohl who played the song for them personally.) This full-throttle fingerstyle excursion revolves around rapid open-string hammer-ons and pull-offs like those in Ex. 9, and was originally recorded as a duet with guitar virtuoso Kaki King.
Ex. 9
Foo Fighters Sydney 2018 - Ballad of the Beaconsfield Miners
When it comes to great songwriting, Dave Grohl and Foo Fighters are arguably the standard-bearers of modern rock. Hopefully this deep dive into some of their compositional techniques will not only give you a greater appreciation for the band, it'll inspire you to incorporate new ideas into your own writing and playing.
