In 2017, Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal and Billy Sheehan bowed to the inevitable and joined a supergroup. That wasn’t a first for either of them, but after decades of NAMM showcases, all-star house bands, prog cruises, guest appearances, overlapping careers, and bumping into each other, Bumblefoot and Sheehan were finally playing in a supergroup together. They teamed up with Dream Theater alumni Mike Portnoy (drums) and Derek Sherinian (keys), plus vocalist Jeff Scott Soto, and formed Sons of Apollo.
“Everybody knew each other,” Bumblefoot says. “About five years ago, me, Mike, Billy, and Derek played together on Progressive Nation at Sea, which was a music cruise. After we finished playing and jamming, Derek said, ‘Hey, we should form a band.’ A few years later, I got an email from Mike. He said, ‘You know how me and you always talked about putting a band together…?’ [Laughs.]
It’s easy to see why they wanted to work together. In addition to their decades of experience, stellar reputations, insane chops, and seemingly effortless ability to play anything—and despite their grueling schedules and myriad commitments—Bumblefoot, Sheehan, and company have similar tastes, experiences, sensibilities, and synergy that, at times, borders on mind-reading.
“You get that automatic ESP,” Sheehan says about his supernatural connection to Portnoy—although that may apply to the others as well. “Sometimes, Mike will do a move that’s new and unanticipated, and at the same time, I do the exact same move on the bass. We don’t plan it, talk about it, or know about it, but we both spin around and look at each other. It’s like an ESP psychic phenomenon. ‘How in the world did that land in sync?’”
MMXX is Sons of Apollo’s second studio effort and follows last summer’s concerts at the Plovdiv Roman Amphitheater in Plovdiv, Bulgaria, where they were backed by a full choir and symphony orchestra. That grandeur continues on MMXX, and examples include the epic fanfare of “Goodbye Divinity,” the tight crunch on “Asphyxiation,” and the mind-boggling, odd-metered unison lines and solos on “Fall to Ascend.” The band is a supergroup, after all, and the album is brimming with super musicianship. But despite the bravado, the songs are melodic, singable, and often anthemic. Does it shred? Of course, but it’s tasteful, too.
“I try to be musical,” Bumblefoot says. “But every once in a while you want to step out and do something that’s cerebral—one of those things that the brain connects to more on a pattern level than a melody level. Every once in a while, the kitchen sink gets in there.”
We spoke with Bumblefoot and Sheehan a few weeks before rehearsals started for the Sons of Apollo winter tour. We discussed the creation of MMXX, their amp-free approach to recording, and their experiences working with classical musicians. We also talked about Bumblefoot’s recent outing as lead singer for Asia’s reunion, and why Sheehan will never stop playing “Shy Boy.”
How do you like being in a band with Jeff Scott Soto? You must remember him from when he was Yngwie Malmsteen’s lead singer.
Bumblefoot: Oh, hell yeah … those first two Yngwie albums. Of course, Yngwie was phenomenal, but it was Jeff’s vocals that did it. If not for Jeff—I’ll just leave it at that—if not for Jeff…. He made the songs great. He made it more than just instrumental shred. He made it songs. He does the same with us. On top of that, every nightmare you’ve ever had with a singer, Jeff is the opposite. He’s like a godsend. He’s the greatest guy to be in a band with. He’s the guy that helps balance the tour budget and you can count on him every night—consistent, the easiest guy, and the most fun guy to get along with. He’s the opposite of every singer story that you’ll ever hear.
Billy Sheehan: I remember Jeff from many ages ago. Talas opened up for Yngwie on tour in the summer of 1985. That was a momentous tour, because before we did our first show I had a meeting with David Lee Roth and agreed to start a band with him, even though I was starting the Talas tour the next day. I had to keep it secret. For the whole tour, I couldn’t tell anybody that at the end of the tour I was going to be flying to L.A. It was quite an amazing thing.
When I found out I was doing this interview, I pulled out my copy of Talas’ Live Speed on Ice.
Sheehan: We just got that version of Talas back together. It looks like we’re going to get a record deal to record the stuff we never recorded. That will be pretty cool. We’ve done some shows. The band sounds the same. The drummer, Mark Miller, is unreal. The singer, Phil Naro, sings in as high a range and as righteous as ever.
How did Sons of Apollo come together?
Sheehan: I was playing with Mike in the Winery Dogs, with Richie Kotzen—a band that I absolutely love and cherish—and Mike wanted to do another project with Derek. I’ve also worked with Derek on a couple of his solo records. They chose Jeff Scott Soto as the singer. But the cherry on the cake was Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal. I jammed with him a couple of times in L.A. He always knew a bunch of Talas songs. It’s funny, a lot of guys from the New York area [know about Talas], we played down there a lot. Even Mike Portnoy. There’s a photo of his first rehearsal with Dream Theater, and he’s wearing a Talas shirt, so we made our impact back in the day. It’s quite a difference playing in a three-piece band and a five-piece band. I pull back a lot. I let the other guys have their spot. It’s an interesting discipline.
Bumblefoot: The songwriting started off as an email thread between me, Mike, and Derek—and this is for both records, really. I would come up with a guitar riff or song idea and send it to them. Derek would do the same. We had this whole bunch of ideas that we could build on when we all got together. For the first record, the three of us were in the studio for the first half, and then Billy got off tour and joined us. We took ideas or came up with a spontaneous idea on the spot, and by the end of the day it would evolve into an entire song. There would always be something different. Then Jeff got off tour, heard all the music, started putting melodies and words to it all, and turned our chaos into singable songs.
TIDBIT: The guitars and basses on the band’s second album were recorded without amps. Thal played through an IK Multimedia AmpliTube or a Line 6 Helix Native, and Sheehan used the Helix and an Ashly Audio compressor.
But the new album was not done like that.
Bumblefoot: No, unfortunately. Time was not on our side. What we did was me, Derek, and Mike got together at Mike’s house for eight days, took all our ideas, and instead of doing the final album recording of it, we made demos. We did a home recording version of everything, and then Mike went into the studio and laid his drums at the same place [Ocean Studios Burbank] we did the first album. They sent me the drum tracks, I laid guitars down to his drum tracks at my place, and Derek laid his parts at his place. We had our demo tracks from the stuff that we did at Mike’s house as a reference.
Sheehan: They got the writing together and sent out the tracks to me, once they were at a greater level of completion. When I record, I’m usually in the control room anyway. So it was very much like recording with the band. When I’m in the control room and just recording to tracks, the advantage is I can really put everything under a microscope, hear exactly what’s going on, and really line things up. Again, this is five guys playing a lot of complicated stuff, and it’s got to be righteous. It’s got to be right on or nothing.
What setup do you use to record with at home?
Bumblefoot: This will piss off the purists: my guitar, plugged into my computer, and either an IK Multimedia AmpliTube or a Line 6 Helix Native.
No amps and no mics?
Bumblefoot: Ampless.
Sheehan: It was all direct. I used the Helix and an Ashly Audio compressor. The Helix has been glorious for doing tracks. If somebody calls me, I grab it, put it in the car, get there, and get everything we need—it’s really been wonderful. I often record sitting in the control room, so I’m used to what it sounds like, whether it’s an amp out there, or I’m going direct. Sometimes in a session, I’ll plug right into the console, add a little EQ, possibly a touch of compression, and play like that—depending on the session, of course. For Sons of Apollo, we needed a really grindy, pounding, frightening bass tone. I’m really pleased with the way it came out.
Bumblefoot: I’ve been a Line 6 guy for 20 years, since the POD 2.0. When you find the right impulse responses to make it feel like you’re moving air, you can really get some nice stuff happening. And with the kind of touring I do, which is so diverse—one day I’ll be doing a guitar clinic, the next day I might be playing at a big festival with a band, the day after that might be an acoustic show, or some kind of one-man storytelling evening—it’s great having all your sounds there.
Although both Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal, here with one of his fleet of Viger DoubleBfoots, and Billy Sheehan play signature doubleneck instruments, it’s more than a novelty. Both players draw upon a wealth of tones and extended techniques with their axes. Photo by Hristo Shindov
Have the five of you played these new songs together in the same room as a band yet?
Sheehan: No, but I’m ready to go. A lot of times, when I have to record separately, and record to a track that’s already laid down, my goal is to play as much of it as possible from beginning to end, as opposed to doing it measure-by-measure, bar-by-bar, or part-by-part. I like to take it from the beginning and see how far we get. Generally, I can get through a lot of the song like that. It feels more like real life to me. Doing my homework is essential and I hit it hard. I always want to come in knowing everything I possibly can about the track, and be able to perform it as much as possible in hopefully one shot. That’s not always the case, of course, but that’s the goal and it helps to do that. That was a big help on this record.
Bumblefoot: The best performances happen when everyone is playing together and you’re locking into the overall pocket of things. With that, you’re forced to commit to things, which is good and bad. It’s great, because honesty comes from first takes, but it also doesn’t give you a chance to develop a song. It could be good, because, “This is what our instincts said, and we ran with it.” But it could be bad, because, “This is what our instincts said, and we ran with it.” [Laughs.] I guess the best thing would be the old school way of the band writing together, playing the stuff together, letting the songs develop, and then recording them after you’ve really connected with the song as a band, and let it tweak itself a little bit over time. But time is the enemy.
You play a lot of your rhythm guitar parts on the fretless. Why is that? Is that just where you are when writing the parts?
Bumblefoot: On the fretless, I drop the 6th string, the low E, two-and-a-half-steps down to a low B, almost like the 7th string on a 7-string. On the fretted, I drop the 6th string a whole-step down to D. I have two different tunings at the bottom. With the fretless, you can get some interesting, dragging, low, growly things. The fretless can lead you into different riffs that you wouldn’t necessarily come up with on the fretted. It’s not just a gimmick. It’s half my playing.
I would think the intonation, when playing rhythm, would be more important than when soloing. Do you have tricks for nailing the pitch?
Bumblefoot: Practice [laughs]. That’s it. You’ve got to practice the instrument and develop your intonation from what you hear, feel, and see—and triangulate all of that. Put it together and, hopefully, playing from those three angles, you’ll get in the ballpark.
Sheehan: His intonation is great. I’ve listened to him very closely and he nails it. It’s not impossible, of course, as every violinist and cellist knows. You listen to a proper classical musician, that’s their stock in trade. They hit that note and it’s the right note. He seems to have that. It’s a cool tonality, too, because it’s metal on metal—a metal fretboard with a metal string. He’s a really unique and incredible player. He has characteristics and flavors that are different from anybody I know, and it’s really wonderful to hear that.
Guitars
Vigier DoubleBfoot fretless/fretted doubleneck
Amps
IK Multimedia AmpliTube (studio)
Line 6 Helix Native (studio)
Line 6 Helix Floor (tour)
Engl Invader 2 100-watt head with 4x12 cabinet
Effects
Morley Wah
TC Electronic Sub ’N’ Up
TC Electronic Flashback Delay
TC Electronic Corona Chorus
TC Electronic Vortex Flanger
TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb
Strings and Picks
D’Addario NYXL (.009–.046, fretted neck; .012–.056, fretless)
Sinister picks .6 mm
“We thought it would be great to have 10 workshops on a cruise, and the next thing we knew we had 35,” she says, laughing. These workshops, where budding guitarists get up close with their favorite players to inquire just how they did what they did, separated A&A from other, performance-based cruises.
The lineup was handpicked by Squire and her staff, and included legendary figures Zakk Wylde and Yngwie Malmsteen, and modern metal masters such as Alex Skolnick, Marty Friedman, and Chris Broderick. Sadly, Michael Schenker had to cancel due to the death of a band member shortly before the cruise.
“If this had been around when I was 17 or 18 and had Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, or Frank Marino, I would have saved up and gone—without a doubt,” says Wylde, who was aboard to show his somewhat more acoustic side to coincide with the upcoming release of his new album, Book of Shadows II.
“Originally, the idea was to only feature guitarists,” Squire relates. After some feedback, Squire and her partners felt they needed additional acts to attract a younger generation, so they brought on Breaking Benjamin, Motionless In White, Thousand Foot Krutch, and others. Squire affectionately refers to them as “Octane” bands—after the Sirius/XM station that features contemporary heavy rock.
With nearly 45 performances and the workshops packed into a four-night cruise—February 20 through 24—it was inevitable that some schedule conflicts occurred, but since most of the acts performed more than once, the chance of missing an artist entirely was next to zero.
YouTube It
During Zakk Wylde’s performance of “Stillborn,” he wielded an Epiphone Masterbuilt acoustic and got up close with the audience as bandmate Dario Lorina backed him up with some sensitive keyboard work. Check out 1:08, where Zakk takes a seat in the crowd and provides an incredible look at his ruthless picking technique.
For Those About to Shred
The Carnival Victory is an impressive vessel by any standards. As soon as I stepped into the Atrium, a centrally located hub that hosted several performances and more intimate Q&A sessions, the sheer expansiveness of the modern cruise ship was somewhat overwhelming. With 13 decks, 24-hour buffets, a full casino, an art gallery, mini golf, a multi-level water slide, a spa, and five performance venues, it’s easy to forget that you’re actually floating in the middle of the ocean.
Most artists were featured in a mix of large-stage performances in either the Caribbean Theater or at the Pool Stage, and workshops or Q&A sessions in the smaller venues. The all-you-can-hear music schedule mirrored the overwhelming amount of food and drinks that filled the ship.
Although many of the guests viewed this vacation as a way to beef up their guitar skills, the first night was aimed at setting the tone with a packed Pool Stage schedule that included a rare U.S. appearance by Japan-based, ex-Megadeth shredder Marty Friedman, the soulful electro-acoustic vibes of Zakk Wylde, and an impressive all-star tribute to an icon of modern rock guitar, the late Randy Rhoads.
While the Victory headed from Miami toward the first port of call, Key West, Marty Friedman and his band (guitarist Jordan Ziff, bassist Kiyoshi Manii, and powerhouse drummer Chargeeee) tore through an intense set of tunes from Friedman’s latest release, Inferno. Ziff, who bears an uncanny resemblance to Friedman circa ’86, was in lockstep with his boss throughout the set, while Chargeeee’s Animal-esque performance and fireball energy created a buzz that kept fans talking for days.
A Zakk Wylde “acoustic” show might portend musical elements of legendary folk-rockers like Neil Young and Bob Dylan, but shortly into the first tune the comparisons faded. Wylde used a trio of Epiphone Masterbuilt acoustics run through a pair of his signature MXR ZWR Berzerker Overdrive pedals and a Roland JC-120 to create a decidedly distorted sound that served as a fitting platform for trading Di Meola-inspired licks with Black Label Society bandmate Dario Lorina. “I loved seeing Zakk tearing up an acoustic—just giving it everything he gives,” Bumblefoot mentioned the next afternoon.
Tichy, who performed with Ozzy on the Ozzfest tour in 2000, partnered up with Randy Rhoads’ family to develop an all-star tribute to the late guitarist. Usually, Randy Rhoads Remembered performances are scheduled around the NAMM show, but the cruise proved to be a natural fit, since you couldn’t swing a life preserver without hitting someone who could play the “Crazy Train” solo note-for-note. In addition to Bumblefoot, Alex Skolnick made an appearance during the triple-R set with an energizing performance on “Flying High Again.” Legendary bassist Rudy Sarzo, who toured with Rhoads in Osbourne’s band, served up the low end for the night (his highlight was the intro on “Believer”), while Kill Devil Hill vocalist Dewey Bragg did an admirable job on vocals. Jeff Watson, Type O Negative drummer Johnny Kelly, and guitarist Marzi Montazeri made appearances to help power through nearly all of the material on Ozzy’s first two solo albums.
Teachable Moments
Even though most clinics on the schedule listed a specific focus, many morphed into informal but informed Q&A sessions. Act of Defiance guitarist Chris Broderick opened up the Caribbean Theater with a surprisingly large audience for 9 a.m. During his clinic, where everyone had guitars in their laps and was ready to soak up some knowledge, the feeling of community was palpable.
“There’s that instant common bond that everyone has,” says Broderick of the vibe on the cruise. “Complete strangers can start head banging and talking metal.” The welcoming vibes brought out a ton of questions from the crowd, and Broderick interspersed those by playing some tunes through his Axe-Fx-powered rig over some backing tracks on his laptop.
An inquiring attendee asked about how Broderick has such mind-bending dexterity with his ring and pinky fingers. “I seem to hit a wall with tempo and accuracy more quickly with those fingers,” the attendee said. As accomplished a musician as Broderick is, he still strives to identify holes in his playing and creates compositions and exercises to help isolate and fix them. Broderick’s answer to the attendee was Ex. 1, a simple neo-classical-style lick that forces the lackluster fingers to get up to speed. (Bonus idea: Broderick suggests moving the same motif up and down the natural minor scale.)
Once Broderick wrapped up a few last-minute questions, the crowd moved towards the Pool stage where Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal was holding court. The windy conditions might have proven difficult for some, but didn’t faze Thal. “I’ve done crazier,” he recounts. “Once in Buffalo it was so cold—I just took my shirt off and ran into it.” As the queries flowed, Thal’s mix of humor and otherworldly technique was as impressive as it was inspiring.
His approach to the clinic was to encourage players to get out of their own heads and move past the technical. “Once you have the knowledge of scales and modes, you have it. You don’t have to focus on it anymore in order to play,” says Thal. Of course, anyone who gets the chance to ask Thal a question always inquires about his infamous use of a thimble to explore the imaginary frets past the neck to produce everything from ultra-high birdcalls to attention-grabbing harmonics.
A little rain couldn’t stop Zakk Wylde from taking the stage on the opening night of the cruise. Armed with a trio of Epiphone Masterbuilt acoustics, Wylde played songs from his latest album, Book of Shadows II, and even dug out some jams from his 1994 solo debut, Pride & Glory. Photo by Annie Atlasman
Both Zakk’s and Yngwie’s clinics were scheduled for the afternoon at sea on the way to Nassau. Each was able to impart a bit of valuable knowledge to the masses, but most of the time was spent hearing these masters play up close and absorbing by osmosis. Wylde opened up with an unaccompanied guitar solo before Dario came out and the duo dug into a jammed-out, 12-minutes-plus version of “Machine Gun Man” from Pride and Glory.
Marshall Amplification’s artist relations chief Nick Bowcott was on hand to moderate Yngwie’s clinic and keep things moving. There’s magic in watching Yngwie play through his bag of harmonic-minor-flavored sweep licks. Even if the music isn’t your thing, the efficiency of his technique and unwavering dedication to his craft is something to behold. The throngs of “Yngwie Who?” shirts seemed to grow by the dozens after his performance and his clinic.
Berklee professor Joe Stump offered a great intro to sweep picking during his morning workshop. An Yngwie devotee, Stump provided everyone with extensive handouts demonstrating his approach to 3-, 4-, 5-, and 6-string sweep picking shapes. One of the most effective is shown in Ex. 2. It’s an excerpt from Stump’s solo on “Brothers in Shred” from his latest album, The Dark Lord Rises.
“The first figure is a standard 5-string A minor sweep shape,” explains Stump. “I added the hammer-on and pull-off to make it an even sextuplet.” The second half of the lick focuses on smaller, more manageable 3-string shapes that hop up and down the neck. “I’ll frequently mix and match arpeggio and sweep shapes that are all the same note value,” he explains.
Ready to Mingle
Probably the most appealing aspect of Axes & Anchors was how approachable many of the artists were. Even if you missed one of the clinics or Q&A sessions, it wouldn’t be difficult to run into Zakk, Marty, or Bumblefoot strolling around the pool deck or grooving along to one of the performances. Shortly after the meet-and-greet, where VIP attendees moved from station to station in order to get a pic with their favorite artists, Zakk Wylde, for example, was hanging around giving anyone interested some of his time.
The whole experience was a prime example of how going above and beyond a simple autograph or selfie might make a fan for life.
One of the more interesting Q&A sessions took place in the Atrium with Brian Tichy, Rudy Sarzo, and the Rhoads family (Randy’s brother Kelle and sister Kathy). Fans got to ask about Randy’s early years, Sarzo shared some stories from the road, and Tichy relayed a humorous story about using his audition for Ozzy to get out of a speeding ticket with a cop who was a metalhead.
After the performances, there were activities for the more nocturnal. You might find Zakk or Friedman hosting blackjack or craps in the casino, or Bumblefoot and Nick Bowcott getting up and jamming with fans on the 660 Guitars stage.
Shred Isn’t Dead
The stage in the Caribbean Theater was foggy with only the lights from 20-something Marshall heads illuminating the dozen or soMarshall cabs below. Rumor had it that due to weight restrictions, a few heads had to be left on shore. With a stage setup like that, it wasn’t much of a mystery as to who was about to perform. The crowd amped up with excitement, the band took the stage, and Yngwie proved to everyone in attendance why he’s still the king of neo-classical shred.
With one of his many blonde Fender Strats in hand, Yngwie had a somewhat surprisingly athletic stage show. He had plenty of room to move, since the rest of his band only covered about a third of the stage. One of the early highlights was “Rising Force,” the title track from his 1984 debut album, which showcased Malmsteen’s jackhammer rhythm riffs—an overlooked part of his style.
Testament’s Alex Skolnick and his trio, bassist Nathan Peck and drummer Matt Zebroski, planned two completely different performances for Axes & Anchors. The first took place in the Adriatic Lounge, which was the perfect setting for the group’s adventurous jazz-rock. Over their last few albums, the trio has moved farther from improv-infused versions of rock and metal classics to their own twisted compositions. Skolnick used the performance to debut two newly written tunes slated for a future release. “Culture Shock” was a country two-beat that showed off Skolnick’s deft hybrid picking as well as his willingness to open himself to influences and insert them into his compositions. The other tune, “Unbound,” started with a funky, slap-guitar intro that owed more to bassist Larry Graham than any of Skolnick’s jazzier inclinations.
One of the highlights of Skolnick’s metal set in the Caribbean Theater occurred when he invited Brian Tichy and Rudy Sarzo for a spirited take on Ozzy’s “Mr. Crowley.” All three did time with Ozzy, but none of their tenures overlapped. Skolnick even asked if anyone in the crowd would be interested in tackling the vocals, before he stepped up and did an admirable job. It was another example of the once-in-a-lifetime collaborations that happen when you have a boatful of musicians and plenty of time to rock.
Mama, I’m Coming Home By nearly all accounts, the maiden voyage of Axes & Anchors was a success. Squire says plans are in the works for the next installment, which will likely take place in 2017, and the goal will be to attract more people with a more diverse lineup. “Throughout the cruise, and even afterwards, many artists gave us feedback about how to improve it for next year,” she says.
After the ship pulled into the Port of Miami, the now-bonded community of guitarists took home some inspiration from a long weekend at sea. For Skolnick, it was back to work. He flew straight out of Miami to join his bandmates in Testament. (Glen Drover, who’s played in Megadeth and King Diamond, covered a few gigs for Skolnick while he was on the cruise.)
Even the artists onboard took away some new tricks and were exposed to new bands. “I really enjoyed getting up early to check out Jeff Watson,” Thal said. “His eight-finger tapping stuff was just smooth as hell.” Wylde mentioned, “I think it’s cool that Breaking Benjamin and Motionless In White are on the cruise, because it gives a nice break from all the guitar guys. It adds a little variety.” As Thal put it, “If you love rock guitar this is the place you should have been.”
Alex Skolnick did double duty, performing with his own jazz-informed trio as well as guesting for a visceral take on “Flying High Again” during the Randy Rhoads Remembered concert. Photo by Annie Atlasman
Alex Talks Eddie
Edward Van Halen remains a looming figure—despite his absence—over an event like Axes & Anchors. Alex Skolnick shared his thoughts about Eddie’s natural mastery with Premier Guitar:
“I consider Edward Van Halen’s early guitar work as inspiring today as it was during Van Halen’s prime (pre-1984). While this rarely causes any surprises, eyebrows do get raised whenever I express the opinion that too much focus is placed on Eddie’s two-handed tapping, speed picking, and other attention-getting elements, and not nearly enough on some of his other qualities such as feel, vibrato, groove, and riffs. One thing that is most often overlooked is Eddie’s use of rule-breaking melodic patterns. These tend to be deceptively simple in concept and brilliantly placed. For example, let’s look at the ascending line as heard in ‘I’m the One.’ Starting on the 5th string, this sequential pattern backtracks by one note between strings 3 and 4 and resolves to the root (A) on the 1st string. Other than those two exceptions, this lick is just a simple three-note pattern all the way across the strings that don’t follow a particular scale or mode. Another great example is the intro and solo to ‘Hot for Teacher.’
“Eddie claims no knowledge of scales or modes, which makes sense when you study his work. However, while he (along with Hendrix, Wes Montgomery, and a few others) benefited from being a pure ‘ear’ player, the ability to translate that into an innovative approach is very, very rare. Most of us are better off learning at least some music theory.”
Thal is a fun interview subject. His custom doubleneck Vigier Double Bfoot was on his lap throughout our conversation. He demonstrated techniques, illustrated points, and played examples mid-sentence, displaying his command of contrapuntal fingerstyle classical, jazz chord melody, and of course, classic rock. He ripped through the Yngwie solos he learned note-for-note as a teenager. “I can’t believe I still remember this,” he said after playing—perfectly—an obscure gem from the first Alcatrazz album.
We need to reel it in.”
When Thal isn’t touring or recording, he teaches, hosts workshops, raises money for charity, and hypes his line of incendiary hot sauces. His latest album, Little Brother Is Watching, was released in February and he is—you guessed it—touring like a madman in support.
PG sat down with Thal to discuss his new album, influences, unorthodox guitar techniques, production work, guitars, and amps—and why being gear-obsessed isn’t always a good thing.
Some songs on your new album make it obvious that you’re a Beatles fan.
Oh yeah. My first musical loves were the Beatles and Kiss. Hearing Kiss Alive when I was five is what made me want to get out and do this. But as far as just really loving music, that was the Beatles. All five of them. I include George Martin, the producer, because he added everything that made those songs special.
How did they influence you?
As time goes on I realize more and more that music is about telling stories—sharing your overall feeling, the picture you envision, and trying to bring listeners into that experience so you’re there together. It comes from the words, the melody, the intensity, the dynamics—everything! It’s all the ingredients combined, every spice in there.
Photo by Catherine Asanov.
And Kiss was more about being a rock ’n’ roller?
Yeah. They were more about getting onstage and letting your energy out.
Who was your man in Kiss? Ace? Gene?
The great thing about bands like Kiss and the Beatles is that you know them on a first-name basis. Each name is so important to the entirety of it. If one of them wasn’t there, it just wouldn’t be what it was.
You’ve said that Eddie Van Halen gave you permission to do things. What did you mean?
That’s when I started chopping up guitars, pulling off frets, and getting into other things. Before that, I always thought guitar was just a tool for getting a song out there. But when I heard the things he was doing, I realized that this instrument can do so much more, and can have a life of its own. That’s when I started experimenting with what you can do with the string. You’re not just playing the fretboard—you’re playing the strings themselves. The string has sounds to offer beyond pressing it against the fret. I started really thinking about divisions of strings, harmonics, and what you can get out of that. For example, we’re always shortening the length of the string toward the bridge, but you can also shorten the length of the string toward the nut and get all these other sounds. [Plays an example, touching a metal thimble to the string above the bridge, shortening the string length and raising the pitches of the fretted notes].
It’s like putting a capo on the wrong end of the string.
Yeah. Once you have that, you realize you can get a lot of extra fingerings.
Did you always use a thimble?
I’ve tried other things, such as a nine-volt battery and a rubber band, but I needed something I could immediately access, and having a thimble on my fingertip seemed like the most practical way to do that. So rather than touching the string against the fret, I’m touching the fret against the string. That’s how I get everything else I need.
In your workshops you often encourage people to practice one thing while thinking about another. Why?
When your hands do something automatically, your brain is still telling them what to do. You’re still there doing it—you’re just not overdoing it. You have to practice letting it happen. Get used to not having to be on top of it. Otherwise, if something distracts you, you’re going to fumble. You have to loosen the grip and trust yourself that you’ll be okay. Everything that you want to do will happen without having to think about it.
So sitting in front of the television or having a guitar in your hand when you’re on the phone is a good way to practice?
Absolutely. There will be times when you do need to focus. But it’s definitely good to just let it happen while you’re doing something else or thinking about other things. Get used to having that little background piece take care of it all.
it sound good.”
Is it important to practice with a metronome?
The metronome is your friend. The metronome is never unimportant. Pros use metronomes. It’s how you gain stability playing to something other than just yourself. Your drummer is your metronome, and your drummer is playing to a metronome. If not, then he’s got a good internal one from all that practice he did do with a metronome. Guitar players need to use a metronome to keep from running amok. Guitarists tend to get overly excited, like a wild puppy. We start running in front of the beat and pissing all over the room. We need to reel it in. Otherwise we just rush too damn much and then blame the drummer. [Laughs.]
Lots of people love fast playing. Are you drawn to fast music, or is “fast” just an expression of something deeper?
The thing about speed is, not everyone can do it. It’s something you achieve over time, so it’s something that’s appreciated—it stands out. But speed can overshadow everything else that’s going on in the music, so it’s sometimes best to use it sparingly. It’s a strong spice, and a little goes a long way. You’ve got to remember who you’re making music for. Be conscious and considerate of your audience and what they want. If your audience is shred guitar players, then hell yeah, go crazy. It’s like wearing the right outfit for the right occasion. But what the hell is speed, anyway? It’s just another letter in your alphabet. Speed, chords, vibrato—they’re all just parts of your playing.
Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal's Gear
Guitars
Vigier Double Bfoot fretted/fretless doubleneck (with DiMarzio Chopper and Tone Zone pickups)
Vigier GV
Vigier recreation of Thal’s “Swiss Cheese” guitar
Vigier recreation of Thal's “Flying Foot” guitar
Amps
Engl Invader 100 (through a Marshall 4x12 cab)
Effects
TC Electronic Nova System
Dunlop Cry Baby wah
Strings and Picks
D’Addario NYXL (gauged .009-.046 for the fretted neck and .012-.056 for the fretless neck)
Various .9 or 1.0 mm picks with a bit of surface texture
Your recording skills seem as developed as your guitar playing. How did you learn your way around the studio?
I started when I was 6 years old. I had a cassette recorder in the corner of the room. We had a little nylon-string guitar. We figured out just how far back the drummer needed to be so that our levels would match. Once we’d recorded our music, we played it back facing another tape recorder and sang along—that’s how we’d overdub vocals. I couldn’t even play yet, but I was writing songs.Later we got a couple of microphones and a mixing board, and eventually a nice reel-to-reel Fostex 8-track, then an Alesis ADAT and a Tascam DA-88 synced to a PC running Cubase, and finally, just Cubase.
Do you have a room full of gear?
About 13 years ago I got a whole second house just for recording. I needed a place where I could truly live music and not have to watch the clock or worry about this and that. That’s where I record my albums, produce, and do everything else.
Do you have racks of compressors and effects?
No, plug-ins. Nothing sounds as good as tape and real stuff, but the main piece of gear you need is your ears. As long as your choices and judgment are good, and you know how to get the most out of what you have, your ears are what matter. I’ve heard a lot of shit come out of amazing studios, and I’ve heard amazing things come out of bedrooms. Don’t worry about the gear you don’t have—work with what you’ve got and make it sound good. There’s always a way to make it sound good.
Do you wear different hats for producing and playing?
When you’re performing you can’t think like a producer. You definitely need to shift gears, and over time you get better at doing that. You need to spill your guts, and then be the listener who asks, “Is this translating properly? Are we capturing it? What do we need to do differently?” Wearing the producer hat is like the producer telling the musician what to do—except it’s all you.
How do you coax great performances from other players?
It depends on the person. You have to know the person you’re working with. For example, some people want tough love. They want you to say, “No, that fucking sucks. Do it again. You’re better than this.” Other people want, “That was really nice, but why don’t we try it this way, just as a backup?” The goal is to get their best. It’s not always a comfortable process getting people to dig deep and fight through frustration, keeping it productive and positive with the goal of capturing the best moment.
Photo by Annie Atlasman.
Is your main guitar the Vigier Double Bfoot?
Yeah. This one in particular is only about two years old. Man, I have beaten the crap out of it. It’s so full of dents and torn paint and cracks and missing shaved-down wood chunks and loose screws—and I love it. It’s got mileage. I know where every dent is.
What’s it made out of?
Wood. [Laughs.] I am so bad with that! If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably maple or alder. The fretted fingerboard is probably rosewood, and the fretless fingerboard is “I-metal”—it’s some sort of anti-metal. [According to Vigier, the guitar’s body is mahogany.]
And it doesn’t have tone controls.
No. Both necks have a volume knob and the 5-way pickup selector. [The positions are bridge humbucker, bridge single-coil, both pickups, both pickups out of phase, and neck alone]. It has a switch to choose between necks, a place to hold the thimble, and—just to be silly—a kill switch. I needed it for some of the Chinese Democracy stuff, but otherwise I don’t really use it. I’m a liver, not a killer!
The pickups are DiMarzios?
Yes, on both necks—a DiMarzio Tone Zone and a Chopper, a dual-railed humbucker. I love that pickup. It’s expressive, and it reacts like a single-coil, but with the fullness of a humbucker.
If you break a string, do you just go to the other neck?
I haven’t broken a string in years. I change my strings maybe once every six months. I just don’t break strings.
You didn’t change your strings every night on tour with Guns N’ Roses?
My tech would every two days or every two shows. I thought, “You’re going through all those strings! We could do a whole tour on one set, and it would be fine.”
What about amps?
For my own stuff I go out real simple. Whatever amp they have, I just plug in and play.If I have a bus or van or something with a trailer, I bring my Engl 100-watt Invader head and Marshall cabinet. But if I’m running across Europe doing a lot of workshops and things like that, I just use whatever they have. I think people are too dependent on gear, and they use it as a crutch. Of course, if you’re playing certain metal things and need a lot of saturation and certain harmonics, you won’t get that from a little clean Fender. But most of the time, it’s just go out and play, and don’t worry about nothing.
YouTube It
Bumblefoot’s solo segment onstage with Guns N’ Roses. Don’t miss the fretless thimble madness at 2:22!
How did it feel stepping into a guitar chair previously occupied by Slash and Buckethead?
I just walked into it thinking, “I’m going to jam with a bunch of guys on a bunch of songs, and we’re going to have some fun.” As far as playing iconic songs, you want to be respectful of the audience and remember that those were the melodies they came to hear. I play them and don’t try to rewrite the songs. But if there was an open area where I could jam, I’d just do my thing.
Did you play some of Slash’s solos note for note?
Yeah. Certain things you can’t even consider “solos”—they’re more like a written part of the song that people know and sing along with, and you don’t want to deprive them of that. Take “Sweet Child o’ Mine”: Everyone is waiting for those lines, and not playing them would piss them off. It would just be rude! However, if it’s an open jam like the end of “Paradise City,” that’s your chance to do your thing.
Special thanks to PG readers Chris Annarumo and Yngve Grøvnik, who contributed several of these questions.