Heart’s Nancy Wilson talks about the jitters of performing for Led Zeppelin and the President of the United States, being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and how her journey to the pantheon of rock gods started when she and sister Ann saw the Beatles in 1966.
Nancy Wilson rocking on a Strat in 1980. Photo by Neil Zlozower/atlasicons.com
It’s been 37 years since sisters Nancy and Ann Wilson and their four Heart bandmates—Roger Fisher (guitars), Howard Leese (guitars), Steve Fossen (bass), and Michael DeRosier (drums)—released their debut album, Dreamboat Annie, which included such timeless classics as “Crazy on You” and “Magic Man.” They’d spent a good portion of the two prior years slogging it out at clubs in the Great White North, but all it really took was Annie. The LP eventually stormed the North American airwaves and established the group as one of rock ’n’ roll’s most dynamic and visceral acts.
Today, Nancy and Heart are the most recent inductees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Over the last four decades, they’ve sold multiplatinum albums, played in front of millions of people all over the world—including President Barack Obama—and have joined the ranks of rock music’s elite. We recently spoke with Nancy about the band’s latest honors, getting face-to-face accolades from Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, and her upcoming signature Gibson guitar.
Firstly, congratulations on your induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
It’s really incredible to have that under our belts at this stage of our career. It truly feels like a historic kind of payoff for all of the stuff we’ve been doggedly slogging through and doing for all these years. It’s more than an award, it’s more than a trophy—it really feels like a lifetime achievement award.
Is that something you ever aspired to or even thought possible?
Our fans were really up in arms about us getting it someday. They were like an angry rabble about it, and they were shouting about it for a long time. We were just like, “Aw, you guys, it’s probably never gonna happen because, A) we’re not from Los Angeles or New York, and B) we’re women.” We had become used to being relegated to the passed-over column. It’s interesting how there’s a social perception that eventually turns its gaze on you at some point where you become more legendary. I think it’s mainly because of all the hard work and because we never turned into sort of a jukebox band. We tried to do new and exciting things and just kept doing whatever it took to keep our mugs out there, as they say [laughs]. All of that combined to snowball into a really cool honor.
What was the night of the induction like?
It was both an interesting and a beautiful experience. When we played alongside the original lineup of bandmates from the first version of Heart, there was a lot of water under the bridge and a lot of injured feelings along the way about how things were left. So when we got back into a room with each other and rehearsed, I think they kind of remembered us better, like, “Oh, wait a minute—they’re not just these big dominatrix bitches!” We wanted to put them at ease so that we were honoring them and everything they contributed to this huge history called Heart, too. I think they were pleasantly surprised, which was a really great thing about the whole event—we buried the hatchet, in a way. The other great thing was how forthright [Soundgarden singer] Chris Cornell was with his induction speech. We had asked him to sing and do some things with us along the way, and he’d always been elusive about it so we were really flattened and flattered that he was so incredibly wonderful in his speech and gave us our rightful place in Seattle history. It’s a long and rich history, that Seattle music scene.
You also had Pearl Jam’s Mike McCready and Alice in Chains’ Jerry Cantrell jam with you on “Barracuda”—it seemed like a massive celebration of the Seattle scene! Why do you think it is so musically vibrant up there?
We once called it “the Liverpool of the Northwest.” It’s got that gypsy seaport vibe, with sailors coming in and music being imported from different parts of the world. I don’t know why, but I think there is something really magical about Seattle and the music that comes out of there. Part of it has to do with the weather, because you tend to woodshed—you’re not out playing tennis everyday, y’know what I mean? It’s such a moody town and there are a lot of people with a lot of depression in Seattle, but it also makes for good songwriting in a way—you can’t beat pain for good material [laughs]. I shouldn't make light of that, but the moody skies do actually contribute to the sound of Seattle. At the same time, there is such a great humor about that place, and it’s a really intelligent, educated town.
Wilson broke out a Duesenberg Starplayer TV on the recent Fanatac tour. Photo by Larry Marano/atlasicons.com
Going back in time a bit, how would you describe the dynamic between you and original lead guitarist Roger Fisher?
Roger is a really great, original guitar player. He was not a trained kind of a player, which is really one of the great things about him. He broke a lot of the molds that many players were stuck in and was a wild and wooly style of guitar player. I learned quite a bit from him about how to attack the electric, because I had always been an acoustic player. I wasn’t only an acoustic player, but I started playing the electric seriously with Heart. So he showed me a few ropes that really helped me along the way. More than anything, though, it was the energetic way we bounced off one another. It was the stage persona. He was super-amped all the time and I was shy and demure, so when he stepped down from the band I sort of took that energy and became the rock ballerina.
Fun Fact
Heart’s first record label, Mushroom Records, stirred up controversy in 1977 when it ran a full-page ad of the bare-shouldered sisters (similar to the image on the cover of Dreamboat Annie, pictured above) in Rolling Stone with the caption “It was only our first time,” in a tasteless attempt to suggest the sisters were lesbian lovers. Infuriated by the made-up publicity stunt, Ann Wilson penned the song “Barracuda.”
Howard Leese took over lead duties when Roger left in 1980, and you’ve said in the past that you never considered taking over the lead role because of your love of rhythm guitar. What is it about rhythm that is so appealing to you?
I did actually step into a couple of solos on the albums around that time, just because I wanted to do a little more of that. When you’re talking about Howard Leese, however, his accomplishments on lead guitar are formidable and he has a sound that is identifiable all on its own. I think I was just plain intimidated to step into the lead-guitar position while also being the creator and the songwriter. We do words and music—we’re not just riffers. We were kind of hogging up a lot of that territory onstage, and the guys want to have the chance to take their steps forward and have their moment to shine. If we’re hogging all that space as well as all the creative space, there’s a dynamic that you have to be … let’s say “diplomatic” about [laughs].
In your new autobiography, Kicking and Dreaming, you state, “ … musicians appreciate rhythm players, even if the readers of guitar magazines do not.” Why do you think rhythm playing is so underappreciated?
I think rhythm guitar is underappreciated because it’s part of the meat and potatoes of music. It’s the rock. It’s the vibe. It’s the feel of the whole thing. For instance, John Lennon was an incredible rhythm guitar player—Paul McCartney and George Harrison were, as well—and each one of them was probably more important to the sound of the Beatles as a rhythm player than any lead solo part. I think it’s because lead guitar is a shinier object, it’s more obviously flaunted. It’s the frosting on top.
Nancy Wilson designed her signature 1995 Nighthawk with Gibson when Heart was on hiatus in 1993-
94. She used the guitar extensively in the studio for the Fanatic album and is rocking it live on Heart’s
current tour.
Photo by Jennifer L. Areaux
Is it true that Gibson is coming out with a Nancy Wilson signature guitar?
Yes, I’m actually about to test out the new prototype here soon against the prototype I designed with Gibson in the 1980s. I just want to make sure that all the nuts are the same and the sound is the same before I give it the green light. It was issued in a short run a long time ago as the Nighthawk, but I wanted to reissue it as the Fanatic—because I used it quite a lot on our last album, which was titled Fanatic. It’s just got this complete growly rock tone that’s kind of retro and is really hard to beat. It’s hard to recreate that with any new gear, so I’m skeptically optimistic. When I hear it, I’ll know.
Heart Album Highlights
Heart’s debut album, Dreamboat Annie, was originally released in Canada in 1975 to radio success that garnered them a Montreal gig opening for Rod Stewart. The seminal LP was released in the U.S. on Valentine’s Day, 1976. It included three hit singles—“Crazy on You,” “Magic Man,” and “Dreamboat Annie”—and eventually reached No. 7 on the Billboard 200.
Beatle day! That day was just as important in our life as playing at the Kennedy Center Honors [on December 27, 2012] or getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It was the day that we were in the same building with our muses. It was the whole reason we were consumed with music and started playing and began writing songs and had our mom sew uniforms just like the Beatles wore. The four of us went to that show in force with our Beatle outfits on—albeit with skirts instead of pants—and we were there to see the Beatles. We didn’t want to marry them or catch their attention and become their girlfriends somehow. We wanted to take the dictation from the force!
You mentioned the Kennedy Center Honors—exactly how mind-blowing was it to play “Stairway to Heaven” in front of Led Zeppelin and the President of the United States?
The thing I say now is, “Gee, no pressure, man!” [Laughs.] It was quite a moment—it didn’t feel real—and leading up to it was rather nerve-racking. It was such a chaotic situation of rehearsal rooms and choirs and all these different people set up in these rooms where nothing sounded really good and you didn’t know how it was going to turn out. It was also freezing outside and my hands were basically frozen, so I could barely play at the rehearsal. There was just so much stress around it and leading up to it, plus we had had a show the day before so we had to fly across the country and lose some sleep, which meant we were all pretty exhausted. When the time came to actually rock out and play “Stairway to Heaven” in that heady room for those heavy people, though, me and Ann just took a real deep breath, looked at each other right in the eye, bumped our skull rings together, and got out there and started it. It ended up being a heavenly experience—it was really just elevated and it felt like the kind of enlightenment that you always want music to bring. It was well worth all of the nervousness, I’ll tell you that.
Playing for Jimmy Page and Zeppelin must have been quite cathartic—and terrifying. You have not been shy over the years about citing their influence on you as a musician.
It really was amazing, because afterwards—before we even saw how cool it came across—each of the Zeppelin guys came back and individually said how much they loved the way it came off. When Jimmy Page told me that he really liked the way I played it, I was just like, “You … YOU are telling me this right now? Okay, my life is made—thank you very much!” I mean, they invented all that stuff! We like to play Zeppelin’s music—and because of Ann we’re able to play it really well—but when Led Zeppelin themselves come back and tell you how much they liked it, that’s a whole other thing! Like, Robert Plant came back and said, “You don’t even know. When that song started, I was really getting nervous—because I hate that song and people always screw it up—but you guys nailed it and it was great!” It was, like, “Thank God!” It was just a really cool day.
Did you get an opportunity to meet the President?
Yes, earlier that day we had a quick meet-and-greet with the President and First Lady in a photo line. I got the chance to blurt out something really nerdy to the President: I said, “Thank you for your leadership.” Then he said, “I’ll do my best,” or something really cool. Then to Michelle I said, “You rock!” and she was, like, “Thank you!” It was all just one extremely cool day, and it’s all downhill from here.
Heart is set to tour with Jason Bonham’s Led Zeppelin Experience this summer. Do you think attendees might get to see a reprise of that “Stairway” performance?
We’re actually joining forces with Jason because of the Kennedy Center thing and how well received it was. Jason is kind of like their son or their nephew in many ways, and he made sure to take it to them first to get their blessing to do it, which they did. So then we talked about him opening for us and putting together a Led Zeppelin set at the end of our show with our band and a couple of his people. We’re very excited about it and are getting choirs from each town we visit so that we can do “Stairway to Heaven” in a way similar to how we did it at the Kennedy Center. The fact that Zeppelin thinks it’s a cool idea is the only reason that we are even trying to do it.
Nancy Wilson's Gear
Guitars
1963 Fender Telecaster with PAF neck humbucker, 1968 Gibson SG with Bigsby, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Gibson Nighthawk prototype, Gibson Nancy Wilson Fanatic/signature Nighthawk, Martin HD-35 Nancy Wilson signature model, Libra Sunrise acoustic
Amps
Budda Superdrive II heads driving Orange 4x12 cabs loaded with 30-watt Celestions, three Trace Elliot TA 200 acoustic amps
Effects
Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail, Electro-Harmonix Small Stone, Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer, Toadworks Barracuda
Strings, Picks, and Accessories
D'Addario medium-gauge phosphor-bronze acoustic strings, D’Addario EXL110 (.010–.046) electric strings, Dunlop .88 mm custom picks, Kyser capos
With the autobiography, the Hall of Fame, and the Kennedy Center
stuff, you must’ve been doing a lot of reminiscing lately. What have you
discovered about yourself, both musically and personally, and what
would you like your legacy to be?
Having gone through these last couple of years and seeing what the
legacy starts to look like is a really cool thing. What it’s beginning
to look like is what we would have always wanted it to be—it’s
organically become equal parts cautionary tale for women who want to
walk into this music business as well as a tale to give courage to women
who want to do it. Our legacy helps women know how to do it without
being sucked into the image vortex, while staying true to who you are
when you have to be like a warrior fighting through it all. I think it’s
great, as well, to see how many men are appreciative of us and have
accepted us as humans and not just having us stand on a gender platform
about it. We’re just good musicians, y’know? Whether or not we’re “good”
depends upon your taste, but at least we’re accomplished at what we do
and we mean it. I guess the best legacy is to be authentic and vital
until such a time as the big hook comes out and they tell you to go
home!
YouTube It
There are countless examples of Heart’s greatness to choose from, but these clips represent some of the high-water marks.
Nancy Wilson plays the instantly identifiable galloping rhythm to "Barracuda" on her tricked-out Gibson SG with the phase effect on full tilt.
Early footage of Heart playing their first hit, "Crazy on You," in 1977. Nancy Wilson's classically inspired fingerpicked intro (played here on an Ovation) is extended out to a full minute before she kicks into the verses.
Nancy stands alone at center stage to begin perhaps the scariest cover song you could ever cover anywhere—let alone when Page, Plant, Jones, and the President of the United States are in the crowd. (Just try to keep that lump out of your throat when the choir kicks in at 4:24—because you can plainly see that Plant can’t.)
Tom Bedell in the Relic Music acoustic room, holding a custom Seed to Song Parlor with a stunning ocean sinker redwood top and milagro Brazilian rosewood back and sides.
As head of Breedlove and Bedell Guitars, he’s championed sustainability and environmental causes—and he wants to tell you about it.
As the owner of the Breedlove and Bedell guitar companies, Tom Bedell has been a passionate advocate for sustainable practices in acoustic guitar manufacturing. Listening to him talk, it’s clear that the preservation of the Earth’s forests are just as important to Bedell as the sound of his guitars. You’ll know just how big of a statement that is if you’ve ever had the opportunity to spend time with one of his excellently crafted high-end acoustics, which are among the finest you’ll find. Over the course of his career, Bedell has championed the use of alternative tonewoods and traveled the world to get a firsthand look at his wood sources and their harvesting practices. When you buy a Bedell, you can rest assured that no clear-cut woods were used.
A born storyteller, Bedell doesn’t keep his passion to himself. On Friday, May 12, at New Jersey boutique guitar outpost Relic Music, Bedell shared some of the stories he’s collected during his life and travels as part of a three-city clinic trip. At Relic—and stops at Crossroads Guitar and Art in Gilbertsville, Pennsylvania, and Chuck Levin’s Washington Music Center in Wheaton, Maryland—he discussed his guitars and what makes them so special, why sustainability is such an important cause, and how he’s putting it into practice.
Before his talk, we sat in Relic’s cozy, plush acoustic room, surrounded by a host of high-end instruments. We took a look at a few of the store’s house-spec’d Bedell parlors while we chatted.
“The story of this guitar is the story of the world,” Bedell explained to me, holding a Seed to Song Parlor. He painted a picture of a milagro tree growing on a hillside in northeastern Brazil some 500 years ago, deprived of water and growing in stressful conditions during its early life. That tree was eventually harvested, and in the 1950s, it was shipped to Spain by a company that specialized in church ornaments. They recognized this unique specimen and set it aside until it was imported to the U.S. and reached Oregon. Now, it makes the back and sides of this unique guitar.
A Bedell Fireside Parlor with a buckskin redwood top and cocobolo back and sides.
As for the ocean sinker redwood top, “I’m gonna make up the story,” Bedell said, as he approximated the life cycle of the tree, which floated in the ocean, soaking up minerals for years and years, and washed ashore on northern Oregon’s Manzanita Beach. The two woods were paired and built into a small run of exquisitely outfitted guitars using the Bedell/Breedlove Sound Optimization process—in which the building team fine-tunes each instrument’s voice by hand-shaping individual braces to target resonant frequencies using acoustic analysis—and Bedell and his team fell in love.
Playing it while we spoke, I was smitten by this guitar’s warm, responsive tone and even articulation and attack across the fretboard; it strikes a perfect tonal balance between a tight low-end and bright top, with a wide dynamic range that made it sympathetic to anything I offered. And as I swapped guitars, whether picking up a Fireside Parlor with a buckskin redwood top and cocobolo back and sides or one with an Adirondack spruce top and Brazilian rosewood back and sides, the character and the elements of each instrument changed, but that perfect balance remained. Each of these acoustics—and of any Bedell I’ve had the pleasure to play—delivers their own experiential thumbprint.
Rosette and inlay detail on an Adirondack spruce top.
Ultimately, that’s what brought Bedell out to the East Coast on this short tour. “We have a totally different philosophy about how we approach guitar-building,” Bedell effused. “There are a lot of individuals who build maybe 12 guitars a year, who do some of the things that we do, but there’s nobody on a production level.” And he wants to spread that gospel.
“We want to reach people who really want something special,” he continued, pointing out that for the Bedell line, the company specifically wants to work with shops like Relic and the other stores he’s visited, “who have a clientele that says I want the best guitar I can possibly have, and they carry enough variety that we can give them that.”
A Fireside Parlor with a Western red cedar top and Brazilian rosewood back and sides.
ENGL, renowned for its high-performance amplifiers, proudly introduces the EP635 Fireball IR Pedal, a revolutionary 2-channel preamp pedal designed to deliver the legendary Fireball tone in a compact and feature-rich format.
The EP635 Fireball IR Pedal brings the raw power and precision of the ENGL Fireball amplifier into a pedalboard-friendly enclosure, offering unmatched flexibility and tonal control for guitarists of all styles. This cutting-edge pedal is equipped with advanced features, making it a must-have for players seeking high-gain perfection with modern digital convenience.
Key Features:
- Authentic Fireball Tone – Designed after the renowned ENGL Fireball amplifier, the EP635 delivers the unmistakable high-gain aggression and clarity that ENGL fans love.
- Two Independent Channels – Easily switch between two distinct channels, with each channel’s knob settings saved independently, allowing for seamless transitions between tones.
- Built-in Midboost Function – Enhance your tone with the integrated Midboost switch, perfect for cutting through the mix with extra punch.
- Advanced Noise Gate – Eliminate unwanted noise and maintain articulate clarity, even with high-gain settings.
- IR (Impulse Response) Loading via USB-C – Customize your sound with user-loadable IRs using the included software, bringing studio-quality cab simulations to your pedalboard.
- Headphone Output – Silent practice has never been easier, with a dedicated headphone output for direct monitoring.
- Premium Build and Intuitive Controls – Featuring a rugged chassis and responsive controls for Volume, Gain, Bass, Middle, Treble, and Presence, ensuring precise tonal shaping.
SPECS:
- Input 1/4” (6,35mm) Jack
- Output 1/4” (6,35mm) Jack
- Headphone Output 1/8”(3,5mm) Jack
- 9V DC / 300mA (center negativ) / power supply, sold separately
- USB C
The Gibson EH-185, introduced in 1939, was one of the company’s first electric guitars.
Before the Les Pauls and SGs, this aluminum-reinforced instrument was one of the famous brand’s first electric guitars.
It’s hard to overstate the importance of electric guitar in shaping American popular music over the last half-century. Its introduction was a revolution, changing the course of modern musical styles. Today, when we think of the guitars that started the revolution, we think of the Stratocaster and the Les Paul, guitars held against the body and fretted with the fingertips. But the real spark of this musical mutiny was the lap-steel guitar.
In the early 20th century, guitar music was moving out of the parlors of homes and into public spaces where folks could gather together and dance. Guitarists needed to project their sound far beyond where their wimpy little acoustic instruments could reach. Instrument manufacturers began experimenting with larger body sizes, metal construction, and resonators to increase volume.
Around this time, George Beauchamp began experimenting with electric guitar amplification. He settled on a design using two U-shaped magnets and a single coil of wire. Beauchamp was in business with Adolph Rickenbacker, and they decided to stick this new invention into a lap steel.
If we put on our 1930s glasses, this decision makes perfect sense. The most popular music at the time was a blend of Hawaiian and jazz styles made famous by virtuosos like Solomon “Sol” Hoʻopiʻi. Photos of Hoʻopiʻi with a metal-body resonator abound—one can imagine his relief at being handed an instrument that projected sound toward the audience via an amplifier, rather than back at his own head via resonator cones. Beauchamp and Rickenbacker were simply following the market.
As it turned out, the popularity of Hawaiian music gave way to swing, and electric lap steels didn’t exactly take the world by storm. But Beauchamp and Rickenbacker had proven the viability of this new technology, and other manufacturers followed suit. In 1937, Gibson created a pickup with magnets under the strings, rather than above like Beauchamp’s.
“When I plugged in the EH-185 I expected to hear something reminiscent of Charlie Christian’s smooth, clean tone. But what I got was meatier—closer to what I associate with P-90s: warm and midrange-y.”
The first page of Gibson’s “Electrical Instruments” section in the 1939 catalog features a glowing, full-page write-up of their top-of-the-line lap steel: the EH-185. “Everything about this new electric Hawaiian Guitar smacks of good showmanship,” effuses the copy. “It has smoothness, great sustaining power, and an easy flow of tone that builds up strongly and does not die out.”
Picking up the 1940 EH-185 at Fanny’s House of Music is about as close as one can get to traveling back in time to try a new one. It is just so clean, with barely any dings or even finish checking. Overall, this is a 9/10 piece, and it’s a joy to behold. Speaking of picking it up, the first thing you notice when you lift the EH-185 out of the case is its weight. This is a much heavier instrument than other similar-sized lap steels, owing to a length of thick metal between the body and the fretboard. The catalog calls it “Hyblum metal,” which may be a flowery trade name for an early aluminum alloy.
This 1940 EH-185 is heavier than other lap steels in its class, thanks to a length of metal between its fretboard and body.
Photo by Madison Thorn
There are numerous other fancy appointments on the EH-185 that Gibson didn’t offer on their lesser models. It’s made of highly figured maple, with diamond-shaped decorations on the back of the body and neck. The double binding is nearly a centimeter thick and gives the instrument a luxurious, expensive look.
Behind all these high-end attributes is a great-sounding guitar, thanks to that old pickup. It’s got three blades protruding through the bobbin for the unwound strings and one longer blade for the wound strings. When I plugged in the EH-185 I expected to hear something reminiscent of Charlie Christian’s smooth, clean tone. But what I got was meatier—closer to what I associate with P-90s: warm and midrange-y. It was just crying out for a little crunch and a bluesy touch. It’s kind of cool how such a pristine, high-end vintage instrument can be so well-suited for a sound that’s rough around the edges.
As far as electric guitars go, it doesn’t get much more vintage than this 1940 Gibson EH-185 Lap Steel. It reminds us of where the story of the electric guitar truly began. This EH-185 isn’t just a relic—it’s a testament to when the future of music was unfolding in real time. Plug it in, and you become part of the revolution.
Sources: Smithsonian, Vintage Guitar, Mozart Project, Gibson Pre-War, WIRED, Steel Guitar Forum, Vintaxe
J Mascis is well known for his legendary feats of volume.
J Mascis is well known for his legendary feats of volume. Just check out a photo of his rig to see an intimidating wall of amps pointed directly at the Dinosaur Jr. leader’s head. And though his loudness permeates all that he does and has helped cement his reputation, there’s a lot more to his playing.
On this episode of 100 Guitarists, we’re looking at each phase of the trio’s long career. How many pedals does J use to get his sound? What’s his best documented use of a flanger? How does his version of “Maggot Brain” (recorded with bassist Mike Watt) compare to Eddie Hazel’s? And were you as surprised as we were when Fender released a J Mascis signature Tele?