The rising guitar star blends classic and psych-rock, Motown, and more influences with modern pop flourishes in songs replete with fat, fuzzy, fizzy tones from her new Epiphone Sheraton signature.
For so many artists, the return of live shows means the return of the thrill of performing, much-needed income, and, in a way, purpose. The third definitely goes for guitarist Emily Wolfe, who, when asked about her goals, immediately responds, "I just want to play arenas every night for the rest of my life. When I go up there, something could hit me at any point—an emotion that I felt 10 years ago could come out in a bend on the low E."
As she sharpens her sound, Wolfe is helping to keep the rock genre alive—not by mimicry or séance, but by taking the grit of the past and expanding it with a broader emotional vocabulary, confidently concise guitar work, and pop-inspired arrangements.
Wolfe, who's toured and performed with Gary Clark Jr., the Toadies, Heart, and the Pretenders, doesn't get why people can be so confounded by the third descriptor. "Some of my rock friends say, 'Pop isn't relevant,' and I'm like, 'What are you talking about—it's everywhere!' It's so sticky for people, and that's really fascinating to me. I want my music to have that quality … but also the realness of a raw guitar tone."
Epiphone Exclusive | “No Man” by Emily Wolfe
What's exciting about her latest full-length release, Outlier, is how she captures exactly what she's talking about. The songs bleed like a wounded gunslinger over a silvery backdrop of deftly layered synths, tight vocal harmonies, and blended acoustic and electronic drums. Over the course of the album, she sings, "I just can't get close enough to you," ("Vermillion Park"), "I'm addicted to the broken," ("Never Gonna Learn"), and "I'll chase you 'til my lungs give out," ("My Lungs Give Out"). It's through her adept genre fusion and aching romanticism that Wolfe offers her audience something to connect with that's not just clever, but also powerful.
"An emotion that I felt 10 years ago could come out in a bend on the low E."
Stone Age Methods
Outlier was produced by Michael Shuman, bassist of Queens of the Stone Age, who Wolfe describes as "like, the coolest guy that I've ever seen in my life." It started out as a long-distance project, as she's based in Austin and Shuman is in Los Angeles. They sent demos back and forth before Wolfe went into the studio in the fall of 2020. (She was later joined by bassist Evan Nicholson and drummer Clellan Hyatt.) With Shuman's encouragement, Wolfe set aside perfectionist leanings and took a more adventurous approach to the recording process than she had in the past.
Emily Wolfe's semi-hollow Epiphone signature model, the Sheraton Stealth, is a modern take on John Lee Hooker's longtime favorite, the Sheraton. It has a layered maple body with a mahogany neck, signature inlays, a Tune-o-matic bridge, CTS pots, two volume controls and one tone control, and Epiphone's Alnico Classic PRO pickups.
Photo by Barbara FG
On her 2019 self-titled first album, Wolfe exacted every tone before entering the studio, but this time around, she allowed more room for spontaneity, which made things far more relaxed. "It was easy to get into the flow and be really present," she says. "I think I'll probably do the next record like that because it was a lot more fun." One trick she made use of with engineer Michael Harris involved an MPC (music production center) controller and a few floppy discs of drum samples. Throughout the recording process, the samples were layered on top of the acoustic drums.
But that experimentalism came with some apprehension. "I said to [Shuman], 'How am I going to replicate this sound live?'" Wolfe says. "He was like, 'It doesn't matter, dude, just make the best record you can and figure out the live stuff later.'" Shuman's attitude toward recording contributed to the flexible atmosphere that enabled Wolfe to evolve, but not without some challenges. "There was one instance when, on 'Damage Control,' I didn't have anything prepared [for the solo]," she says, "and he was like, 'Go up to my living room and write something and come back down when you have it.'"
"If I get a new piece of gear, I have to figure out every single part of it before I can really use it."
The Persistence of Pop
On Outlier,Wolfe's ambition was to create a golden blend of classic eras, drawing upon '60s Motown, '70s glam, '80s synth-pop, and '90s grunge to produce something as enduring as those styles. "If you listen to Motown, in the first minute or so, the hook is there. I wanted to bring that in, too," she relates. "There's so much rawness [to classic rock]; the edges are not perfect, but there's a magic in that. There's also the side of modern stuff where the edges are really perfect and very computerized. I wanted to mix those together and see what would happen."
Wolfe believes that modern pop stars are not given enough credit for their work ethic, daring, and conceptual talent. If you doubt that, consider Carly Rae Jepsen, who wrote 200 songs in the course of producing her albums Emotion (2015) and Dedicated (2019). And there's the prolific Ed Sheeran, who in 2015 sold out the 90,000-capacity Wembley Stadium for three nights in a row as a solo act, and Swedish writer and producer Max Martin, who's written 25 No. 1 hits (split among 10 different artists), which is five more than the Beatles have as a band. "I have a theory that Max Martin is an alien. He's in the Illuminati, I swear to God," says Wolfe, laughing.
Emily Wolfe's Gear
Although she has just two albums, Wolfe‚ caught here onstage at Cambridge, Massachusetts' Middle East nightclub in November 2021, released three singles and an EP before her first full-length, Emily Wolfe, arrived in 2019. Her new Outlier shows remarkable album-to-album growth.
Photo by Brent Goldman
Guitars
- Epiphone Emily Wolfe Sheraton Stealth
- 2018 Gibson Firebird
Amps
- Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4x10
String and Picks
- Ernie Ball Slinky Cobalt (.010–.046)
- Dunlop Tortex Jazz III .88 mm picks
Effects
- RJM Mastermind PBC/10 switcher
- Origin Effects Cali76
- Dunlop Cry Baby Q Zone
- EarthQuaker Devices Tentacle
- EarthQuaker Devices Dirt Transmitter
- MXR Six Band EQ
- Fulltone OCD
- Klon KTR
- Walrus Audio Julia Analog Chorus
- MXR Carbon Copy
- Strymon Flint Tremolo and Reverb
- Vertex Boost
"The backbone of so much of our industry is pop," she continues, expressing her admiration for artists like Demi Lovato and Ariana Grande, and pop production as a whole. "I try to dive in and analyze: 'How did this producer make this song stick in my head immediately and live in my soul?' If it comes on in a restaurant and I know every word.… I want my music to have that."
An Ear for Overdrive
We mentioned earlier that Wolfe can be exacting when it comes to finding the right tone. She fuels those analytical tendencies with as much gear knowledge as she can imbibe, saying that she feels lost if she doesn't know something about a piece of gear in her palette. "If I get a new piece of gear, I have to figure out every single part of it before I can really use it," she says.
TIDBIT: Wolfe's latest album was produced by Michael Shuman, bassist of Queens of the Stone Age. The guitarist describes Shuman as "like, the coolest guy that I've ever seen in my life," and he encouraged her most adventurous work.
In her spare time, Wolfe explores every pedal she can get her hands on and entertains herself by searching for the perfect combination for her signature sound. She's put together a "desert island board" comprised of three pedals: the EarthQuaker Devices Tentacle analog octave-up pedal, running into a Fulltone OCD, and an MXR Six Band EQ. "That's the sound that belongs to me," she says. The sequence creates a "crazy fuzztone" from the overdrive. Then she uses the EQ to reduce some of the lows and boost the mids for a sound she says will get her guitar to cut through any mix.
She says she never really liked using chorus until she stumbled across the Walrus Audio Julia Analog Chorus/Vibrato pedal. "It's pretty inspiring. 'My Lungs Give Out' was pretty much because of that pedal," she shares. "It kind of wrote the intro for me." The song's gentle vocal and subtle use of the pedal in the intro, followed by her singing paralleled by quietly distorted guitar in the pre-chorus, calls St. Vincent to mind. That's a comparison Wolfe responds to favorably.
Rig Rundown - Emily Wolfe
On top of her signature pedal combination, Wolfe now has a signature guitar. In March, Epiphone debuted the Emily Wolfe Sheraton Stealth, a black, semi-hollowbody electric guitar with diamond-shaped soundholes and gold hardware, set up with two Alnico Classic PRO humbuckers. "The Stealth is my dream guitar and gift to the music community," says Wolfe. "Playing it is like putting on a perfectly worn-in pair of jeans. It just fits. The guitar is the perfect frequency range for my soul." And for her music—from her stinging blues-rock bedrock to the expressionist colors of her newest work. (It was first featured in our Rig Rundown above.)
Melodic Mindfulness
Wolfe was only 5 when she found herself intensely drawn to the guitar after seeing one hanging on the wall at a thrift shop. That instrument became her first. But it wasn't until she was in high school that she fell in love with it, which is also when Wolfe first got into songwriting. Her early creative process involved writing down lyrics by L.A. indie-rockers Rogue Wave, her favorite band at the time, on one side of a page, then writing her own lyrics on the other. "They obviously weren't great," she says, "but over time I sharpened that skill."
Wolfe has a reputation for high-energy shows that bring the bones of her songs and the classic rock and blues foundation of her guitar playing to the fore.
Photo by Brent Goldman
Today, she fosters a kind of spiritual connection with her music. "Whenever I get an idea, I try to nurture it and treat it like this thing that wants to be born, then listen to it and what it wants to be," she says. She remembers that someone once suggested she pray to the song she wants to write, to make sure it comes from her and no one else. This advice made a lasting impression. "I was like, 'Oh shit, okay,'" she laughs. "Sometimes I'm like, all of these artists that have passed away—where did their talent go? Where did their songs go? Maybe they're sending these songs down to other people."
In a more concrete sense, Outlier is a departure from Wolfe's first album, which was slightly more traditional and featured a guitar solo on almost every song. Switching her mental focus to hooks and arrangements breathed new life into her writing. While she still feels proud of her earlier work, Wolfe feels she's headed in the right direction. "I wanted to make something that would be classic 10, 20, 30 years from now," she says. "That was the goal, and I think we achieved it."
Emily Wolfe - Damage Control (live in the studio)
Take it from English cyclist Sir Dave Brailsford: With an all-encompassing approach to improving the marginal aspects of your methods, you can get quite the payoff on the quality of your endeavors. And that goes for recording, too.
Technology is a strange bedfellow in the arts. We’re either dazzled or disenchanted, love it or hate it, and the drive behind it all is a relentless need to gain a slight competitive edge on our own creativity—at least that’s how I think of it. Last month I wrote about the benefits of using a modeling microphone on a single source. This month, I want to expand that to a larger format.
Recently, I did a live recording and mixing masterclass with Universal Audio, Guitar Center Pro, and the Blackbird Academy back in Dallas, Texas (my hometown). The format: Record a live performance of a band including acoustic, electric, bass, and drums, plus vocals with additional synth tracks, and then immediately pivot to mixing in the box—all in front of a live audience. In addition, I also wanted to do something very different. I wanted to use modeling mics to record the drum kit and simultaneously use them without modeling for the live performance. My hope was that later during mixing, I would compare and contrast to see if I could get more of a “studio” sound.
There are many modeling microphone choices on the market today, mostly made by Slate, Antelope, and Universal Audio, ranging in list price from $129 to $1,500. For this masterclass, I used UA’s Standard Microphones with Hemisphere Modeling (starting at $129).
Live vs. Studio
Now for those of you that read my Dojo offerings regularly, you know I always emphasize mic placement as well as using as little EQ and dynamics processing as possible. In short, always start by taking as much time as you can to adjust the mic to get the best sound possible before reaching for the EQ knobs on any sound source. If you have more than one mic to choose from, switch mics and listen. Are you getting closer to the sound(s) you want?
After making sure the band was totally happy with their monitor mix and things sounded good in the house, the show began. To ensure that the tracks would be as clean as possible, I recorded the performances into my DAW with no modeling, EQ, or dynamics on the drums (or for the rest of the band). I did use some EQ and a little bit of dynamic control for the live show to keep the vocals out in front of the band.
The drum layout was as follows:
• Overheads: two SP-1s (spaced pair)
• Two rack toms and floor tom: three SD-7
• Kick drum: one SD-5
• Snare: one SD-3
Marginal Gains
Once I got the drum kit balanced in volume, I proceeded to bring in a pair of Neumann KH 310 monitors so the masterclass participants could hear what tracks sounded like in a more “studio” mix environment. I cycled through the various modeled mic profiles to hear the differences until we all reached a consensus as to which model worked best for each specific drum in the kit. (My picks: Neumann KM 54 for overheads, cream-colored Sennheiser MD 421 for toms, AKG D12 for kick, and SM57 for snare.) I could then toggle on and off all the profiles at once and hear a completely modeled-mic drum kit as opposed to the “natural” one. The results definitely raised some eyebrows and proved the efficacy of the “aggregation of marginal gains.” This term was coined by Sir Dave Brailsford, who catapulted British Cycling to legendary achievements and wins by choosing not to focus on big gains in a single area, but rather highly detail-oriented marginal gains in many areas (“The 1-Percent Factor”). Thus, by using seven modeled mics on the kit, the composite result was noticeably more flattering than without, and a more polished “studio” sound was achieved.
“Always start by taking as much time as you can to adjust the mic to get the best sound possible before reaching for the EQ knobs on any sound source.”
You may be asking, “Did the mics sound good in the house without any modeling?” Yes! I found them to be equally on par with the standard “live mic” stalwarts we all know. Now, this isn’t a review of the microphones as much as what I mentioned at the beginning—that technology can offer us unique possibilities if we start thinking outside conventional norms and use products outside their primary design. Look around your studio right now, or think about the gear and instruments you have. Can you challenge your creativity and try something new? Can you embrace the 1-Percent factor?
As for me, my next recorded live gig will very likely be with modeling mics!
Until next time, namaste.
Does the guitar player’s mind have the patience and focus of a classical musician, or are we on another tip altogether?
The first time I really played music was in fourth grade in my elementary school orchestra. Although I played terribly and was just one tiny cog in a huge musical machine—second to last chair in the second violin section out of 30 kids—being part of these incredible, interwoven melodies was a genuinely moving experience, regardless of how bad it must have sounded. But despite the personal history, classical musicians are a bit of a mystery to me, and probably most guitarists.
Firstly, classical music is too much work.
Great guitarists all have worked their asses off to master their instrument. But the most dedicated guitarists probably won’t put in half as much hard practice time as classical players. I first noticed this when I was touring with my friend and former bandmate Robert Martin—who’s worked with Frank Zappa, Stevie Nicks, Etta James, Bonnie Raitt, and lots of others. We could be in Venice with a free day to explore, and Robert would lock himself in a room with his French horn to practice. On the gig, he wasn’t even playing French horn, just piano and sax, but he carried that thing with him around the world because he had to get his lips on that horn daily. It was somewhere between a compulsion and rigid dedication. Robert told me he had been on this schedule since 1969, when he entered the Curtis Institute of Music, where he undertook intensive classical studies.
On Quora, I found a conversation around the question, “How much do professional musicians practice every day, or does performing take the place of practice?” Only classical musicians responded. The consensus was that orchestral musicians need to practice all the time to play at their absolute best. For symphonic violinists, the practice minimum seems to be three hours daily, but it’s not uncommon for violinists to practice eight hours per day and they rarely take a day off.
Sasha Romero, the principal trombonist in the MET Opera Orchestra, posted on the forum about her typical day. “I usually warm up/practice fundamentals for 30–60 minutes before starting a 2.5-hour rehearsal. Depending on the rep, I may play 5 minutes of that or pretty much every measure (trombones still have far fewer notes than string players). There’s often a second 2.5-hour rehearsal after lunch. After I get home, I might have one more hour-long practice session where I work on an upcoming rep or a recital or whatever is in the near future.”
On her lightest weeks, she posted that she practices about one-and-a-half hours minimum, and four hours max, every day. I could not imagine the misery of four hours alone in a room playing trombone scores. Lots of counting, a bit of monophonic blowing. Torture.
Ever notice when you walk into a venue to see an orchestra, they are all seated practicing right up until the conductor walks out? I always think, “The curtain is up. We can see you. If you don’t have it by now, just go with what you’ve got.” Meanwhile in the world of guitar, half the band is joking around or slugging down drinks right until curtain.
“I could not imagine the misery of four hours alone in a room playing trombone scores.”
Guitarists play what we want when we want. Yes, hard practice is part of the guitar journey, but even a raw guitarist, only playing for a short time with no formal training can play something that connects on the deepest level.
Second: Classical music limits your expression.
Classical players color in the lines. Their contribution to a composition, as one player on the forum put it, is that “the depth of color is up to you.… If Beethoven wants pianissimo, I must play the softest, most spine-tingling pianissimo anyone ever heard!”
Guitarists outside the classical world have carte blanche to do whatever they want. As Eddie Van Halen said: “You’ve only got 12 notes, and however you mix them up is your thing.” In our world, the most revered guitarists are players like Django Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Jeff Beck, and EVH. They are celebrated because they went where no one had gone before.
Guitar is a very personal instrument. We are all influenced by others, but ultimately, all guitarists have their own thing. If 10 guitar players lay down a track for a new song, you will get 10 wildly different interpretations.
The vast majority of my 10,000-plus hours were spent having fun, or, as SRV put it, “trying to pray through my guitar.” Guitar remains my therapist, entertainment, companion, and an expression of self. Classical musicianship feels more like servitude to me. Guitar feels like freedom. Classical feels like religion. Guitar feels like spirituality. I’m not knocking either one, but we know who our tribe is.
Your esteemed hosts of the 100 Guitarists podcast have been listening to Randy Rhoads’s body of work since they learned the word “pentatonic.” His short discography with Ozzy Osbourne has been emblazoned on both of our fingertips, and we’ve each put in our hours working out everything from the “Crazy Train” riff to the fingerpicked intro to “Diary of a Madman.” But in our extended Premier Guitar fam, we have an expert who’s been studying Randy’s licks since longer than either of us have been alive.
On this episode, we’re thrilled to be joined by Chris Shiflett—best known to you as the host of Shred with Shifty or as the Foo Fighters’s foremost expert on Randy Rhoads. Since growing up with these riffs in his ears, Shifty’s been making tokens of tribute to the later guitar slinger, from bespoke t-shirts to stuffed guitars.
Join us for Shiflett’s Randy Rhoads primer, learn why you should crank the outro to “S.A.T.O.” as loud as you can, and what Ozzy song makes this Foo cry.
Use code: PREMIERGUITAR10 for 10% off.
Offer valid until Dec 31, 2024. Visit http://bullheadamplification.com.
For the first time, Dave Grohl, Pat Smear, and Chris Shiflett discuss their shared 6-string history, breakdown some Foos riffs, and give insight on 30 years of rock and roll.
Over the past 30 years, Foo Fighters have become one of the most influential and important bands in rock and roll. Through countless gigs from clubs and theaters to arenas and stadiums, the trio of Dave Grohl, Pat Smear, and Chris Shiflett have developed a vocabulary that at this point comes together naturally. It’s a shared language that is always present but rarely (if ever) discussed. Until now.
Back in February, the trio convened in Studio 607 for a sitdown that is destined to be an instant classic among Shred with Shiftydiehards. Below are a few excerpts from the conversation—edited for clarity—that hit on what first inspired Dave and Pat to pick up a guitar, why there was so much feedback at Germs gigs, and that one time they ran into Joe Bonamassa at Guitar Center. You can watch the full episode on YouTube, where they break down “Hey, Johnny Park!,” “La Dee Da,” “Rope,” and so much more. — Jason Shadrick
Chris Shiflett: Alrighty, fellas, let's jump into it. You're in the hot seat now.
Dave Grohl: Oh God. Here we go.
Shiflett: Let's start off easy. What are you playing today?
Grohl: This is my signature DG-335 Epiphone and it's fucking rad. Love it. Been playing it on tour.
Pat Smear: It's not even out.
Dave: Is it not out yet?
Smear: No. Only rumors.
Shiflett: For the sake of this interview, it might be out by the time this airs, so we could be in a time machine. Pat, how did you go from being a guy who famously borrowed guitars at Germs gigs, didn't own one of your own, to the man we see here today with a barn full of guitars?
Smear: That's why, because I didn't even have my own guitar, so I'm like, well, now I need two.
Shiflett: … hundred … thousand. [laughs]. What are you playing today?
Smear: I am playing prototype number one, made by Mike McGuire from the Gibson Custom Shop. It's a Mini Barney Kessel Triburst prototype from 2011. May 11th, 2011.
Shiflett: Do you also have a baritone back there?
Smear: I do. My Hagstrom baritones are on tour, so that's my SG baritone. It's a funny guitar. I'm told that it was originally going to be a Buckethead model, his new model, and he just disappeared. So, they put it out as a baritone.
Grohl: He flew the coop?
Shiflett: When you first came back to the Foos, why did you land on a baritone so much of the time? Had you played much baritone prior to that?
Smear: I played one a little bit. I played one on The Color and the Shape album. That sounded great, but I never played it live. But then, what am I going to do? There are already two guitar players. When we were doing Wasting Light, I'm like, “What am I going to fit in here? Well, nobody's playing baritone. I'll pull that out.”
Grohl: And that’s the story of the Foo Fighters. [laughs]
Shiflett: What made you guys want to be guitar players in the first place? Because probably a lot of people don't know that the guitar actually came before drums, right?
Grohl: Yeah. My father was a classically trained flautist, and my mother bought him a nylon-string, which I don't think he ever played, but it sat in the corner of the room like a piece of furniture, and by the time I got to it I was maybe like eight or nine years old and it maybe had two or three strings on it. I picked it up and played “Smoke on the Water” or something like that. I understood where to put my hands on the frets, and then I was like, “wow, this is cool.”
Shiflett: Did you ever take lessons?
Grohl: I took a few lessons when I first started playing, and I was disappointed because I wanted to learn how to play chords so I could play along to things. I could hear the songs and sort of figure them out, but I was stuck with just getting my little-kid stuff together. And then the teacher started to try to teach me classical. I remember he taught me this thing. [plays short classical piece].
Smear: It worked! It's still there.
Grohl: I was like, fuck that shit.
“I don't even know what a good guitar sound is, but I do know when I play an old Trini through the Tone Master, I really have control over what I'm doing.” — Dave Grohl
Shiflett: What about you, Pat? What made you want to be a guitar player?
Smear: It was my sister Ingrid, who is a couple of years older. She had a nylon-string acoustic guitar in the house. I had those forced piano lessons when I was a kid, and I would cry through the whole thing. I hated it so much, and then I picked up the guitar and I'm like, “Oh, well, that's my thing.” But it was really [Alice Cooper’s] Love it to Death. That picture on the back cover. I'm like, I want to do this. I want to play that.
Shiflett: It's funny how that still informs your guitar choices. Who would you consider your primary guitar influences?
Grohl: I really liked Ace Frehley. I mean, I had a Beatles chord book, and that's where I was learning to play chords and stuff, but I never saw footage of the Beatles playing when I was eight or nine. I just thought Ace was so fucking cool looking, and I loved the way he stood, and I loved his Les Paul, and I thought that I could be a guitarist and look like him without all the fucking heels and the makeup and shit.
Smear: I don't know that I had one. I had a bunch. I had all the usual ones, but I thought Mick Ronson was the coolest, but as far as the playing, it was the Alice Cooper guys.
It wasn’t until the band started recording Wasting Light, that Pat Smear dived into the baritone guitar. “What am I going to fit in here?” thought Smear. “Well, nobody's playing baritone. I'll pull that out.”
Shiflett: When did you figure out that you needed a certain kind of gear to make it sound like the record?
Dave: It's funny. My mother bought me a Silvertone, like an old one from Sears with an amp in the case and everything, and it was cool. But then I found out about a distortion pedal. I don't know how, but I think I was in a music store and I saw one, and I said to my mom, I was like, “oh my God, mom, can I get it?” It was 30 bucks. It was an MXR. And I was like, “This is going to make it sound so much better.” And she's like, “Oh, good.” And we buy it and bring it home. After I plugged it in, she was like, “I thought you said it was going to make it sound good!”
Shiflett: It's distorting the sound. [Laughs]
Dave: Yeah, it doesn't sound good.
Shiflett: I had a little solid-state practice amp, and I'd go home and I'd try to play whatever I learned in my lesson and it wouldn't grit up at all. And you'd just kind of be confused. Why doesn't this sound like the Ozzy record? It doesn’t sound right!
Smear: I know! I never knew anything about that part of it.
Grohl: Well, you didn't even have any fucking gear. [Laughs]
Smear: I didn't even have gear. I didn't have a guitar. I didn't have an amp.
Shiflett: What was the time that you showed up at a Germs show and had to borrow somebody else's gear?
Smear: Well, that happened all the time, but the worst one was we were playing with X and I broke my guitar in the first song, and so I'm like, “I need Billy Zoom's guitar!” And, dude, I found out he was hiding in some closet with his guitar saying, “Keep him away from my fucking guitar.” I'm all drunk. I think somebody just taped it back together and we were okay.
Grohl: Is this why there was always so much fucking feedback at Germs gigs? You had no pedals, you would just crank the amp?
Smear: Well, if there was a pedal, I would just step on it and leave it there. And my favorite when I hear old tapes is tuning full volume with the pedal on.
Shiflett: Well, let's talk a little bit about your live rigs that you've gotten nowadays and how that's kind of changed over the years.
Smear: Yeah, Dave, talk about your live rig. [Laughs]
Grohl: Okay, just a disclaimer. I don't know a fucking thing. At first I was playing a Marshall, it was like a JCM 900 or something like that. For the first [Foo Fighters] album, that's what I was playing.
Shiflett: Pedals? No pedals?
Grohl: I really think I only had a RAT pedal and a fucking tuner. I don't think I had any delays or phasers or anything yet. I think I just had a RAT. Then eventually the Mesa/Boogies came along and it was like Dual Rectifiers and 4x12s and that kind of stuff. And then eventually I found one of those [Fender] Tone Masters at Norman’s [Rare Guitars]. And he was like, “These are great, man. This is what Aerosmith used on all of their cool shit.” I've stuck with them ever since. And the thing is that, I mean, I don't even know what a good guitar sound is, but I do know when I play an old Trini through that, I really have control over what I'm doing. I don't have any volume pedals or anything like that. I've got four channels of clean to dirty.
Shiflett: You do have a pretty straightforward live set up. Not a ton of pedals, just phaser and delay and a couple of things.
Grohl: And I can roll [the volume knob] a lot. I mean, that's the thing with the Trini is that they're kind of reactive. They're dynamic and you can make them do …
Shiflett: It leaves a lot in your hands.
Grohl: It does. And especially when you're running around the stage and I don't have 20 seconds to get back to a pedalboard, then I could just roll up and down and just do it in the hands.
“But it was really [Alice Cooper’s] Love it to Death. That picture on the back cover. I'm like, I want to do this. I want to play that.” — Pat Smear
Shiflett: It's interesting. When I joined the band I was playing through a Dual Rectifier and I think you were playing through a Dual Rectifier live, but I was surprised to learn that for Nothing Left to Lose you had used the Trini and old vintage AC-30s and Memory Man, and Hiwatts, so your studio thing and your live thing were very different.
Grohl: I remember having that conversation with my guitar tech at the time, and the justification was basically, if one of those things goes down while we're on the road, we're kind of screwed. And so the Rectifiers were really consistent and you didn't have a lot of problems with them, and if you needed to find another one, they were easy to find.
Smear: And they'd send them like that. [snaps fingers]
Grohl: Yeah, they'd be really quick. And we were just doing that because we were blazing through gigs so much.
Shiflett: I don't remember which tour cycle it was, but there was just a point where when you got that Tone Master and I came in with a Friedman and a something else or an AC, I forget what it was, all of a sudden it went from that to this completely other tone thing live.
Smear: We all had the Mesas.
Grohl: I think we had gotten to the point where we all had sort of three different sounds and three different duties in the band, and so we all started to focus more on that.
Both Grohl and Shiflett are armed with their respective signature guitars. Grohl’s recently released Epiphone DG-335 has been long requested by fans, while Shiflett’s Tele Deluxe will soon get a refresh.
Shiflett: I never had any effect pedals until I joined the band. Can you believe that?
Grohl: Wow.
Shiflett: Never, never played with a delay pedal or a flanger or any of that stuff in my life. And when we first started doing those rehearsals and there were songs like “Aurora” and “Generator” and stuff that had some color, that was when I had to first learn how to do that.
Grohl: I think that a lot of what we do comes from the studio. When we go in to record songs, the basic idea is usually pretty simple and we'll pull that together and then we start to color it with different things, different sections of the song, different effects, different tones, and things like that. And also the arrangement or composition of the three of us doing what we do since we don't want to just do the same thing all the time. I think it took 15 or 20 years for us to figure out the recipe or combination of what we do.
Shiflett: I wanted to talk to you about, “Hey, Johnny Park!” I remember when I bought that record, putting that song on and the big drums came in and then the guitars kicked in, it's like a guitar solo and there wasn't a lot of that in your music, and there really wasn't a lot of that even in alternative rock at that time. I was listening to the recorded version last night and it sounds like maybe it's like a Big Muff or something in that part? Do you remember what guitars you were playing? What amps, pedals, all that sort of stuff?
Grohl: I'm sure on that I was playing through a combination of amps. I think one was old Marshall. I think another might've been a Hiwatt. I don't remember what we had in there.
Smear: The only amp I remember was when you used that smokey cigarette amp. I don't even remember what song it was. But you used that on something.
Shiflett: What was your main go-to guitar back then?
Grohl: I was using the Trini a lot.
Shiflett: Oh, you had it even back then?
Grohl: Yeah, I got the Trini before Foo Fighters. I got it at this place called Southworth Guitars in Bethesda, Maryland, and there was a row of 335s and they're all red. They all kind of looked the same. And then there was this one with this different headstock and it had these diamond f-holes. I knew nothing about it. I didn't know anything about Trini Lopez. And it turned out great. It's the same one that I've used on fucking everything.
Shiflett: How many Trinis do you have? Vintage old ones?
Grohl: Maybe like five or six of them.
Shiflett: I didn't know if you were the Joe Bonamassa of Trinis.
Grohl: No, I’m not the Joe Bonamassa of anything.
Shiflett: I bet Joe Bonamassa is probably the Joe Bonamassa of Trinis. [Laughs.] That reminds me. My favorite guitar shopping moment with Pat was when we were making the last album and we were sitting there and we ran over to the rock and roll Guitar Center, and we went into the vintage room and we're looking at guitars.
Smear: Was Bonamassa there taking apart a Strat?
Shiflett: Yes, but the part that always sticks in my head is there was a 1997 Les Paul and they called it “vintage.” I was like, what? Really? God, how fucking vintage are we? [Laughs.]
Grohl: I just think we’re “used.”